A question About LGDs

[harveyhorses]

So, years ago I worked in a shop in a strip of businesses, The people next door were great, and the owner lived out in the country and wanted to get a LGD, he bought a Kuvaez puppy. (that's how he said it was spelled.) she was adorable, he said they were very territorial, so he wanted to socialize her. I saw her every week Monday- Friday, I walked her, I trained her, she was really smart. IK thought she loved me, or at least knew me. Then, at just about 6 months she went Kujo. I mean jumped up and went for my face in a very nasty sort of way.. After that it was only her owners who could go anywhere near her, she patrolled their land and their shop. She would throw herself against the glass front if anyone went past. and if we made too much noise (we did like a friday night get together in our shop) she would throw herself against the wall. They ended up having to put her down when she went through the glass door and attacked a neighbor.
You may understand why I am leery. My question, are they all that protective? and if so how do you ever have anyone come to your farm? Vets? Farriers? Childrens friends?
I keep seeing the occasional add saying great for protecting your livestock, but no warning label. I know they take a LOT of training. (she was so smart, kept trying to be alpha, but I was not having any of that, she had to go through doors behind me, never let her put herself in a 'vantage point'. but she kept trying.
So, how do you do it?

 

[solanaskyes]

Kuvaszok have been known to be a bit sharp and unstable, but that one sounds like she had a completely incorrect and dangerous temperament, whether due to the way she was raised or genetics. Putting her down was probably the correct thing to do.

A correct LGD will analyze a potential threat situation and react with only enough aggression to drive the threat from their protected area, not go into full blown attack mode at the slightest disturbance. They will, however, escalate their aggression to achieve their goal or to counter real or perceived aggression from the source of the threat. For example, a kid riding his bike within view of my 2 Anatolians' territory will have them both standing at attention, just watching until he is out of sight, a coyote, OTOH, will be met with an aggressive, barking display and chased out of sight (if the coyote is outside the fenced area, woe be any predator or intruder inside their fenced perimeter). They have certain people they "know", like our neighbors and workers who come on the property regularly. They are welcome and get friendly greetings from the dogs, as long as I am there with them, otherwise they are not allowed in. Sinsi, the younger of the 2, still does not want them too close to her chickens, but she respects me as alpha and will just follow and watch them closely. We had one situation where the pool service company we use sent out a substitute technician, who didn't know about the dogs. He quickly found himself pinned in the little fenced area surrounding the pool equipment until I heard him yelling and came out to "save" him. The dogs weren't doing anything except sitting there making sure he didn't move from that spot until I came out, called them off, and gave them a proper introduction.

All of that being said, not every LGD puppy will make a working dog, especially with poultry. It is very important to know the breeder of the dogs well, the temperaments and working abilities of their dogs, and to choose the right LGD breed for what you need. They are all not created equal, and any LGD breed needs an experienced owner who understands their temperaments and how to work with them. I think a LGD is the best protection you can have for your flock, if you are able to handle them. If not, you're likely to end up with a very dangerous animal and/or one that won't guard what you want it to.

 

[harveyhorses]

Thank you, this does make me feel a bit better, They seem to stay in puppyhood and teenhood for a while, and must have training.
It is really annoying for me, I love dogs, a friend has a huge German Shepherd, (perhaps a tad bit overweight) and we get on fine, but I see a big fluffy white LGD and my knees go wobbly. I will NOT let one dog ruin the whole pack.
Thanks.

 

[Mzyla]

Solanaskyes said it all very well. It was unfortunate that your dog was not what majority of LGD's are.
Too bad that it was put down.
It would probably be a great protector on a vast prairie, where farmers are leaving dogs alone without any human visits. Don’t let this one incident to discourage you from owning LGD.
If somebody you know have exceptionally bad child, would you swear not to have children in your life? Just saying…

 

[harveyhorses]

I am trying, It was just upsetting (to say the least) when this great dog I had had contact with 5 days a week for 6 months just turned on me. Her owners ended up moving to DC and living in a condo, which I am pretty sure was the last straw for her mental state.
We would walk past a duck pond, and she was sooo good, alert, but after she learned not to, would never pull on the leash, never paid any attention to other people, except if they spoke or came close she would be between us.
Sad to say it might be a serious case of hurt feelings on my part. (I thought we were TIGHT)
Visiting a friend with a great Pyr this weekend. Not the same, but baby steps. I am not in a place to get one now, but I hope someday. Hey I got chickens partly to get over my fear of them!
Thanks for the encouragement, and glad they are not all like that.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

I had my own dog go Kujo on me. In his case, it was a very sad case of degenerative epilepsy that triggered severe, extremely random and sudden aggression in him, and I almost ended up missing a face. I literally blocked him under the chin mid-lunge with a technique I had learned for martial arts,and he still got my arm after that. It did ruin the breed (Australian shepherd) for me as they apparently have a high rate of epilepsy compared to other breeds. It is very unnerving, a large break in trust too, and for months after we ended up having to euthanize him, I had nightmares of our lovely cattle dog randomly lunging at my face or my husband's. What I'm saying is, your reaction is perfectly natural, and I think you are doing a great thing in trying to overcome it. It's tough.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

LGD's should be guarding livestock in a pasture and not being "trained and socialized" by strangers.

Most people are better off without them at all

 

[bj taylor]

when i was researching dog breeds, i almost got an anatolian. even put a deposit down. ended up with german shepherds. glad. in retrospect, i don't think we would have been a good fit, but i would have loved a dog that would be good with chickens.

 

[harveyhorses]

LGD's should be guarding livestock in a pasture and not being "trained and socialized" by strangers.

Most people are better off without them at all

Well I thought it was better than being in their office all day, and I don't think someone who was seen 5 days a week could be considered 'a stranger'
THIS is exactly what I am trying to get at, there seems to be a trend in getting the 'cool LGD' and as you say most people are better off
without them. Her owners obviously had done no research, and I feel like nobody is taking them as a serious threat when not 'done right by'. Hey, let's get a dog to protect the flock, and think you just plop them out there and it's a magic bullet.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote:

when i was researching dog breeds, i almost got an anatolian. even put a deposit down. ended up with german shepherds. glad. in retrospect, i don't think we would have been a good fit, but i would have loved a dog that would be good with chickens.

Thinking an "LGD" will be good with chickens is a common fallacy.
They have been bred for thousands of years to protect mainly goats and sheep, and are no better with birds than any other breed.

They NEED to be contained, just like the livestock they are meant to protect
Letting them roam free is asking for trouble, and not fair to the dogs either