A question for Candadians and UK folks and the Universal Healthcare

[Dar]

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Really??

That DOES suck.. and its simply not right.

yep I have to pay for that

 

[redhen]

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Really??

That DOES suck.. and its simply not right.

yep I have to pay for that

Is it expensive?

 

[birdsNbeesNseeds]

That's surprising!

I'm no expert but I think counseling here is covered under many (not all) company EAP programs (which give you a certain number of visits) and some county mental health facilities- based on income.

Then you can always pick your own private counselor with insurance payments, of course.

 

[Dar]

EAP is different... we have an EAP but really what good is 5 - 10 visits going to do?

 

[thaiturkey]

Sorry to push the NHS again but that is one of the places where this thread started. It seems widely agreed that the new US provisions aren't sufficient so it is worth looking at the NHS and how it has evolved.

Here's a website that might help. The link is to the Core Principles page because that's relevant to the latest discussion of what's covered and what's not. Any day to day rules are based on need for treatment. The whole of the website is worth reading too.

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/nhscoreprinciples.aspx

You might find the Constitution illuminating. You can download a PDF file from the is page:

http://www.nhs.uk/choiceintheNHS/Rightsandpledges/NHSConstitution/Pages/Overview.aspx

The Trust page shows how the various separate services are organised within the NHS.

It's very clear that State run universal health care is a big and complex undertaking. It's been honed to its present standard in the UK over 6 decades and most would agree that the job of refining and improving it will need to continue. If anyone relies on a few biased sound bites from a politician for their own opinion on this vast subject, they are missing the point.

 

[birdsNbeesNseeds]

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That's true; it's only a start for some types of non-urgent issues, which they give you referrals later - that cost money.

Surprisingly, some of the insurance plans that I know of just recently covered all mental health care just a few years ago- I remember when they came out with the notice. Before that it was out of your pocket or you went to the county facility.

I can't believe it's not covered there already!!!!!!!!!

 

[thaiturkey]

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That's wickedly wrong. It's a standard part of the NHS system. Victims of sexual assault are examined first for obvious reasons and then immediately offered counselling.

 

[PineappleMama]

1st... easiest... Dar that is SO not cool. If police and DA's are covered to protect future victims of these people then by all means treatment for the victim's they've already harmed should be covered as well. Actually, around here there are fees assessed on at least some offenders to cover things like this... though not every victim is informed that this money is available, the counseling is available, etc.

Okay, I wasn't talking specifically about O's system... I'm just talking about a hypothetical system... one that everyone has access to, like the UK kind of system. I think medical needs, such as insulin, should be covered first and foremost... and that anything that is not needed to survive should be a secondary concern. Get a system that saves LIVES first, then you can take all the time you want arguing about the other stuff. All hypothetical.

But to try and explain WHY I am concerned about the possible outcomes... I mentioned knowing folks who've tried to adopt... other people at the kids' school. We all get there early to get a decent parking spot and we talk... eventually adoption came up. One lady was denied because she was single, because according to the adoption people a single mother is incapable of providing the food, clothing and LOVE needed to raise a child... this one had the funds to adopt overseas. But the other... she had polio as a child. Left her with a limp. When she was younger her doctor convinced her that any child she had would be some kind of mutant, disfigured, retarded, etc. And talked her into having a hysterectomy. So she applied to adopt. Married, stable income, stable home, extra bedrooms, all that good stuff. The adoption people flat out told her that because of her limp she would drop a baby on it's head and damage and/or kill it and thus it wouldn't be responsible of them to trust her with a child.... not even an older one that doesn't need carrying. N'mind that she's cared for her nephews for YEARS, since birth, and has never had a problem. It's possible that she might drop a kid (hey, just like a klutz like me) so she's a no. Years later we're having this conversation and I can see the pain it is STILL causing her. To be rejected like that. And knowing they didn't have the money to pay for overseas adoption. So the though of having kids or not being in the decision of the government, some agency... scares the crap out of me.

Likewise, as I said before, the thought of anyone being able to walk in and get pregnant anytime no matter their situation scares me.

If the rules must apply equally to all, The American Way, then it's all or nothing... or something like our adoption system, which I've seen is just flat out scary... and painful for the adults AND kids.... and they do always have the option of paying for it themselves. Overseas, or hire a surrogate I guess... but out of their pocket.

I would love to see folks like you, Red, who are willing and able to support a child be able to have one... but to risk ANYONE being able to have as many as they want no matter the damage to the kids... that's what we've already got (minus nature's snags) and we've got SO many kids in group homes/foster care... the system is overloaded.

But on the flip note if you say no one gets it then decent folks like you are screwed.

But if it is government oversight... well heck how many cases of THAT being scary have we seen... not just adoption, but food, drugs... all sorts of things... the thought of the government being in control of conception is freakin' scary.

And all of that is on top of the arguments about whether having kids, your biological kids, is a guaranteed Constitutional right or not.

I'm beginning to see why it's taking 30+ years to get any health care stuff passed. It's insane.

 

[birdsNbeesNseeds]

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Here's just a question I had based on my experience visiting the island of the UK awhile back (ok, it took me 2 years to pay for that trip- but worth it) and my Grandmother's stories of living in and visiting family in Wales:

1- What would be the population difference between a country like the UK and the US?

2- What would be the geographic size difference between the US (including HI and AK) and all of the UK?

3- What would be the actual financial numbers? As in, starting up and annual; to make a comparative program work for a country the geographic size of the US?

4- What would the actual (or realistic) numbers financial numbers be for tax increases? How would this be proposed? All at once? In steps?



I'll probably think of some more later. I know I can probably look up some population stats, but it's bedtime and I'm tired and cranky

 

[BlackBart]

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That's wickedly wrong. It's a standard part of the NHS system. Victims of sexual assault are examined first for obvious reasons and then immediately offered counselling.

whoa! that is very wrong, they are victims