A quick Scarlet/Range ID question?

[threeepeat]

I have two roux chicks (the breeder has confirmed that both are indeed roux), but we can't yet confirm whether they are Scarlet or Range.

From day 1, they both looked kind of identical, with one just being bigger than the other, but at 2.5 weeks we noticed that the bigger one had lost 95% of its large golden "eyebrows," while the other has completely retained them. Based on this one clue alone (and possibly the feathers in the pics), are we able to confirm their statuses as Scarlet or Rosetta?

The first two pics are of the smaller chick that still has the big eyebrows, and third pic is the bigger chick that has essentially lost them. They seemed to have started with very similar large golden eyebrows.

 

[MamaBirds_Quail]

I have two Scarletts and one does have white facial markings over her eyes and under her chin, but I believe that’s a different gene at play… here’s what they look like grown

And here she was at 3ish weeks:

And a few hours old: the chick right next to here here with the brown and black wild-type striping is a rosetta, if that helps! The Scarlett’s didn’t have any stripes and to their coloring.

I hope those help!

 

[threeepeat]

I have two Scarletts and one does have white facial markings over her eyes and under her chin, but I believe that’s a different gene at play… here’s what they look like grownView attachment 3371536
And here she was at 3ish weeks:
View attachment 3371537
And a few hours old: the chick right next to here here with the brown and black wild-type striping is a rosetta, if that helps! The Scarlett’s didn’t have any stripes and to their coloring.
View attachment 3371538

I hope those help!

Those are great pics! Thanks. That's so interesting.

Both of my 3 week old EB Rouxs (not sure if Scarlett or Range yet) look like your Scarlett. One looks like your Scarlett at 3 weeks, and one already looks like your Scarlett as an adult.

Here is what they looked like as chicks:

I think they started with a very subtle difference in red tone, but otherwise seemed identical to me. I just wasn't sure. In every picture, depending on th ambient light, they look a little different. It sounds like you're thinking there could be another gene at play with light markings. I wonder too.

Last night I listened to a presentation about the roux gene by a guy named Klaus from the Netherlands (Coturnix Corner YT), and I believe he said that we really can't say for certain between Scarlett and Range until 8 to 10 months. That's for certain. But I believe for the trained eye, there is probably a way, as there are some experiened breeders feather-sexing not feather-sex-able colors. A skill that takes a lot of practice and experience I'm sure! lol

By the way, my new chicks are just arriving now too! They started hatching last night. I'll share some pics later

Do you have a photo of your Scarletts as newborn chicks?

 

[MamaBirds_Quail]

Those are great pics! Thanks. That's so interesting.

Both of my 3 week old EB Rouxs (not sure if Scarlett or Range yet) look like your Scarlett. One looks like your Scarlett at 3 weeks, and one already looks like your Scarlett as an adult.

Here is what they looked like as chicks:

I think they started with a very subtle difference in red tone, but otherwise seemed identical to me. I just wasn't sure. In every picture, depending on th ambient light, they look a little different. It sounds like you're thinking there could be another gene at play with light markings. I wonder too.

Last night I listened to a presentation about the roux gene by a guy named Klaus from the Netherlands (Coturnix Corner YT), and I believe he said that we really can't say for certain between Scarlett and Range until 8 to 10 months. That's for certain. But I believe for the trained eye, there is probably a way, as there are some experiened breeders feather-sexing not feather-sex-able colors. A skill that takes a lot of practice and experience I'm sure! lol

By the way, my new chicks are just arriving now too! They started hatching last night. I'll share some pics later

Do you have a photo of your Scarletts as newborn chicks?

Here’s an interesting addition: I had two clicks hatch last night who I now see we’re clearly from my Tibetan tuxedo hen. They are either rosetta, or range (depending on whether the scarlett or falb roo fathered them) just for color comparison

The one with the yellow face will likely be some form of tuxedo and looks more roux than the first (brown beak, lighter legs)

In my first reply the chick center right is one of my Scarlett’s, but here’s a solo shot of her.

My Scarlett’s anyway, had zero pattern to their down they were both a solid warm auburn color.

My striped EB chicks ended up being Tibetan, rosetta, and a grou fee. Hopenthat helps!

 

[threeepeat]

Here’s an interesting addition: I had two clicks hatch last night who I now see we’re clearly from my Tibetan tuxedo hen. They are either rosetta, or range (depending on whether the scarlett or falb roo fathered them) just for color comparisonView attachment 3372423View attachment 3372424
The one with the yellow face will likely be some form of tuxedo and looks more roux than the first (brown beak, lighter legs)

In my first reply the chick center right is one of my Scarlett’s, but here’s a solo shot of her.

View attachment 3372425
My Scarlett’s anyway, had zero pattern to their down they were both a solid warm auburn color.

My striped EB chicks ended up being Tibetan, rosetta, and a grou fee. Hopenthat helps!

This is great thanks for sharing!

 

[threeepeat]

This is great thanks for sharing!

Klaus from Paradise Quail in the Netherlands is a breeder that focuses on the roux gene. This discussion is very interesting (link below). In it, he calls the Fee gene "a roux killer," and I think this is mainly because he says it's difficult to remove the fee gene from roux once it's added, and the color dilution of fee on roux isn't a desired effect (for him). I could be wrong but that was my take away. Of course, what were my first two colors in the world of quail? Falb Fee and Scarlett/Range lol.

Here's the link, and if you prefer to get right to the Scarlett/Range part, it seem to start at 20:13.

It will be difficult for me to find a 5:1 breeding ratio with my current chicks without mixing roux and fee. But my new hatch (1 day old on average) appears to have maybe 14 different colors