A situation at church...

[agnes_day]

trust me, i do know what i am talking about. just go and volunteer for one week and your eyes will be wide open.

 

[CityChicker]

For those of you that have worked with the homeless and have such negative opinions of them, what exactly is your professional training? What is your degree in? I am not trying to be rude. I would really like to know.

I have had *extensive* exposure to medicine and mental health. In my experience, 99.99% of the homeless have a mental illness. I have said it before and I will say it again- NORMAL mentally healthy people simply do not chose to live on the streets.

Yes, a lot do also have substance abuse issues. Well, guess what- medicating with drugs and alcohol is EXTREMELY common in people with mental illness. Seriously, it is so common- it is almost the norm. If I have learned anything, it is that *everything* has some basis in biology. Being mentally ill is not some sort of character flaw.

I am surprised that someone that works with these people professionally would say that 90% are just lazy. That opinion would be counter to that of literally every mental health professional that I know. I do get the frustration with the "undeserving poor" though. I have encountered more than a few in my days of working with HUD properties. They are, to me anyway, in a different class than the long term homeless though.

Anyway, that is my opinion, really no offense intended. I don't think less of anyone that disagrees. That is just how I see it. I might be a little too bleeding heart for my own good as well.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
Well, there ya go.....maybe you should have worked with them for longer than one week!

I jest!

I would have to agree with CityChicker....I don't think rational folks actually choose to sleep on the steps of a church and defecate outside, when there are many programs that will help those who are just a little down on their luck.

Drug abuse is a form of mental illness also. Yes, manipulation of people goes hand in hand with addiction and mental illness. Those who work closely with these types know this right up front.

If the people in this church elect to do the compassionate thing, they would be advised to get some instruction from professionals in just how to minister to this sad sector of the populace.

These people....all of them...were once someone's baby. Someone's son or daughter. How someone with children of their own can have so little compassion or understanding for the children of others is beyond my comprehension. I only pray that someone will show your children more compassion if they should need it one day.

 

[sparkles2307]

Sorry didnt mean to come across so brutal in my earlier post. I work with women who intentionally get pregnant and bring babies into already bad poverty just so they can get more aid. They tell me that. I work with people who say "why cant you just give me the money? why do I have to do something to earn it?" I feel that is an attitude of laziness and entitlement. I dont see how you can let yourself get kicked out of your home and be on the street with 3 kids to care for because it was more important to go on vacation to CA than it was to pay the past 2 months of rent. Situations like that are what have formed my opinions.

I have worked in missions. I helped in a soup kitchen. I saw very nice, some of the nicest people ever, in those places. I helped create a program to help needy familes with food and gifts at Christmas time in our county. I am not hearltess or hateful toward them, but the specific clientelle that I work with are usually on the street because they made stupid choices and know better.

 

[agnes_day]

i unfortunately spent the better part of a year. there ARE people who do care and that cant help the situation they are in, but there also far more that dont care, and that like to live outside of society and do disgusting things to get a reaction. i dont think that people who are following the rules should have to suffer because of the people who wont.
and again, if my kids were to choose this path, i would have no part of it. taking drugs, drinking, breaking the law, these are all choices that we can choose to make or not and if my kids were to make that mistake then they had better be ready to face the consequences of their own actions because i wont be there to pick up the pieces.

 

[WriterofWords]

There are many places they can stay; on the steps of a church, defecating in public, urinating in public, vomiting in public, should not be tolerated. There is no excuse for such behavior, homeless or not and it should be dealt with before the situation gets any worse. I worked with DD adults and children for years, some homeless, some not. It gets to be too easy to just drop your pants and squat on someone else's doorstep rather than walk around a corner to an alley or porta potty. I see a lot of defense of the people abusing this church, but I don't see many defending the church for wanted to have a nice entrance to the church without having to slog through urine and feces. As for WWJD?? The pretty much stoned the beggars and ran them off, so what do you think Jesus would do here?

All the thoughts about the poor homeless people are nice, but it is not the church's place to take this form of abuse just because it is a religious building.

 

[CityChicker]

Yeah, I hear you Sparkles. I have to say that I do understand what you are saying. The funny thing is that someone once said that exact thing to me that you are talking about. I used to work with HUD properties in my early 20's and one lady came into my office once and told me that same thing- that she was going to have another baby to get that little bit of more aid (at the time, it was like $250 per month additional). I was floored.

That said, the other situation you describe, going on vacation instead of paying rent and getting kicked out.... A behavior like that would be very typical of someone that is Bipolar. I'm not saying that was the case, but spontaneous irrational acts like that despite the consequences are typical behaviors of someone with mental illness.

Anyway, I do totally understand the frustration with the undeserving poor that are "working" the system basically. For some, it becomes a lifelong mindset. These people are really different to me though then the chronic homeless that live on the streets indefinitely.

 

[Wifezilla]

It does the mentally ill no good to promote them living in an unsafe situation. Providing services that allow them to continue creating a health hazard for other people as well as put themselves at risk helps no one.

Unfortunately a lack of access to medication and continuing medical care, their paranoia, comorbid drug and alcohol issues all work against them.

The church has many ways they can provide assistance and that can be debated, but they have a responsibility to the parishioners and the general public too. Allowing people with mental illness and drug abuse issues to hang around and create health hazards puts their church members at risk.

 

[Beekissed]

and again, if my kids were to choose this path, i would have no part of it. taking drugs, drinking, breaking the law, these are all choices that we can choose to make or not and if my kids were to make that mistake then they had better be ready to face the consequences of their own actions because i wont be there to pick up the pieces.

Glad God doesn't feel this way, or we would ALL be in trouble ........

Righteousness is as filthy rags in the eyes of the Lord.

I may get angry at my kid's mistakes. I may feel frustrated and hopeless. But I also feel love and the realization that we all make mistakes. The Bible says to forgive, if you would want forgiveness.

But, we aren't talking about mistakes per se. We are talking about people with mental illness that goes beyond a few bad choices.

God loves those people the same as He loves you. They are his children the same as you are. Are we only supposed to love the "good" children? Do you only love your children when THEY are being "good"?​

 

[CityChicker]

Really, WoW? I haven't seen anyone say it is okay for these people to defecate on the church steps.

I certainly haven't sensed that anyone feels that way.

....also, as far as these people having plenty of places to go to get help, that is certainly not the case in many places. Perhaps some cities are blessed to have plenty of room for all the homeless. In many, if not most, places though- there is not even room for a small fraction.