Accepting what might be and pushing forward.....need advice on multiple concerns.

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

I actually have that article bookmarked, and i had screenshot some of the paragraphs to reference to the other day. Unfortunately, i had done some screenshots of the Safeguard info, too, and now I've realized that i mistook the Flubenol in the article with fenbendazole in Safeguard. We went out to give her the treatment, and she seemed like she had really improved. I was holding her while my husband gave her the dewormer. He misunderstood me when i said .23, and he was going to give her 2.3. I had caught on at about 1.0 ml...and now I'm stressing that we may have OD'd her on dewormer. I just got done reading that fenbendazole shouldn't have harsh reactions at 100x recommended dosage. Although that gives me a slight bit of relief, i doubt I'm going to sleep well tonight.

Fenbendazole treats gapeworms; you are good there. You are also fine that you didn't o.d. her on the dewormer. Fenbendazole (and ivermectin) are both very safe even in high doses. You are dealing with a lot of issues, and it's hard enough to get it right when dealing with only one sick bird. You are doing great!

 

[Chopper923]

I cannot tell you how much relief I feel after reading your message. Enough relief that I WILL be able to sleep. I will leave it in God's hands for the night. Tomorrow is a new day, and I will do my best to keep learning what's best for my girls. Thank you, @Allsfairinloveandbugs

 

[TropicalChickies]

Thank you for the info!! I will check the probiotics we have here to make sure they don't contain added fiber. They are still on a nonmedicated chick starter...our feed mill does not carry chick grower. They get an occasional fruit or veggie treat and daily fresh dandelions. My daughter has given them grass in the past, and we just had a talk about not giving them long blades of grass due to that possibly causing crop issues. So much to learn! We also stopped giving them grit once we moved them to an outdoor coop and run since we had thought that they would find grit on the ground, but now we are wondering if they didn't have enough grit due to the ground being so dry and hard from lack of rain. Tonight, grit was given to all the flocks! They haven't had pine shavings since we moved them to their outdoor coop & run (over a month ago?). Their coop has sand. I cannot think of anything else that they've come into contact with... I've attached a picture of her poop from tonight.

Sounds good. Yes, I would keep supplying grit if the ground is hard. Lots of things can cause am impacted crop. Try to make sure they are all drinking water. Sometimes the stronger chicks dominate the waterers and others don't get enough. Dehydration can impact a crop.

That poop looks pretty good. It will be a bit soft or runny because of the oil you are giving her. Make sure she drinks water. Sometimes I'll put one grain of rice in a little bowl of water so the chick has to deep her beak several times to try to get the grain of rice.

 

[Chopper923]

Sounds good. Yes, I would keep supplying grit if the ground is hard. Lots of things can cause am impacted crop. Try to make sure they are all drinking water. Sometimes the stronger chicks dominate the waterers and others don't get enough. Dehydration can impact a crop.

That poop looks pretty good. It will be a bit soft or runny because of the oil you are giving her. Make sure she drinks water. Sometimes I'll put one grain of rice in a little bowl of water so the chick has to deep her beak several times to try to get the grain of rice.

I love that idea of putting a grain of rice in the water! Very clever! Good to know about needing to add grit when the ground is hard. Thank you for the feedback on her poop! I remember a few month's ago looking up info on what a healthy chicken's poop looks like, and i was amazed at all of the different things to look for in color and consistency. Most of the pictures I would have never guessed were health/normal, so for the moment, I decided to not stress over it too much. I'm sure that's another thing I will learn to recognize over time.

 

[Chopper923]

Btw, she made it through the night. (I should probably give her a name...any suggestions?) Her crop is WAY smaller!! (YES!!) I will continue to massage her crop and give her coconut oil and the stool softener, and I will keep her on a mushy diet. I also found Culturelle Children's Probiotics in a box (we are still not unpacked yet ), and I do not see that it contains any fiber. I will research it a bit more, and if it looks like it will be safe, that's what I will give her. If not, I will keep searching thru boxes because I know we have adult probiotics, too.

We will be giving the CORRECT doseage to the rest of the flock to treat for possible gapeworm. I noticed one of the other little ones in this group was quiet yesterday afternoon...something didn't seem right. This morning I was watching for her when I opened the coop to the run, and she didn't come out. I found her sitting inside. Crop is empty. Phew! Maybe the dewormer will help, but I will be keeping a close eye on her!

Even tho I felt relief after reading @Allsfairinloveandbugs post that we wouldn't have caused an OD of the Safeguard, I still woke up thru out the night worried. I swear, these chickens are going to make me bonkers. Lol. Hopefully I learn how to get better with accepting that I am doing the best I can, and I cannot save them all....some things are out of my hands. The part that really bothers me is just not having the knowledge and understanding of chicken behavior and illnesses. I don’t want to be the cause of any of them getting hurt, sick, or dieing...I know, I will get better with time. But still, it's a challenge to not feel guilty when I don't know if it's something I did or didn't do to keep everyone healthy.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Btw, she made it through the night. (I should probably give her a name...any suggestions?) Her crop is WAY smaller!! (YES!!) I will continue to massage her crop and give her coconut oil and the stool softener, and I will keep her on a mushy diet. I also found Culturelle Children's Probiotics in a box (we are still not unpacked yet ), and I do not see that it contains any fiber. I will research it a bit more, and if it looks like it will be safe, that's what I will give her. If not, I will keep searching thru boxes because I know we have adult probiotics, too.

We will be giving the CORRECT doseage to the rest of the flock to treat for possible gapeworm. I noticed one of the other little ones in this group was quiet yesterday afternoon...something didn't seem right. This morning I was watching for her when I opened the coop to the run, and she didn't come out. I found her sitting inside. Crop is empty. Phew! Maybe the dewormer will help, but I will be keeping a close eye on her!

Even tho I felt relief after reading @Allsfairinloveandbugs post that we wouldn't have caused an OD of the Safeguard, I still woke up thru out the night worried. I swear, these chickens are going to make me bonkers. Lol. Hopefully I learn how to get better with accepting that I am doing the best I can, and I cannot save them all....some things are out of my hands. The part that really bothers me is just not having the knowledge and understanding of chicken behavior and illnesses. I don’t want to be the cause of any of them getting hurt, sick, or dieing...I know, I will get better with time. But still, it's a challenge to not feel guilty when I don't know if it's something I did or didn't do to keep everyone healthy.

The children's probiotics are just fine.

So... As I read all of your posts and watch the videos, I agree with @Allsfairinloveandbugs : someone sold you sick chickens. And I know just how that feels. My original lot I bought over 3 years ago came with a respiratory disease (probably infectious bronchitis) and several had bumblefoot. I'm so sorry you've lost several birds and are dealing with this.

It would be good to find out whatever has caused them to become sick and/or die. A necropsy would be worthwhile. But whatever is affecting these birds, whether it's avian flu, Infectious Bronchitis, mycoplasma, etc., some will die, some will survive. But you can increase their chances and get some peace of mind by knowing what you're dealing with. Like you, my whole chicken journey started off on a very hard road, learning about diseases and afflictions. It gets better. It does.

Personally, I would deworm the birds old enough to be dewormed (not the 7 week olds). Worms can block a crop, and they can push a weak bird over the edge. Yes, deworming is hard on their bodies, but so are the worms. Worms don't let them absorb nutrients from their food and can make them anemic. To give them a fighting chance against whatever is making them sick, in my opinion, they need to get their nutrients and they need their red blood cells.

You are doing really well coping and doing your best. Keep us posted.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

My original lot I bought over 3 years ago came with a respiratory disease (probably infectious bronchitis) and several had bumblefoot. I'm so sorry you've lost several birds and are dealing with this.

Like you, my whole chicken journey started off on a very hard road, learning about diseases and afflictions. It gets better. It does.

I know how it feels too. I purchased my first chickens in 2014, point of lay ISA Browns. The very next morning one laid an egg, and I was so excited and proud. But soon some of those 12 pullets began to show respiratory disease symptoms. I had no clue what was wrong, and no clue that so many chicken diseases are incurable. Even though I researched all I could, it took months to find answers, and I found those answers here on BYC. Eventually I submitted a body to my state lab for necropsy, and learned the pullets carried MG. I was very sad and disappointed that someone sold me sick birds, but also discovered a med that treats and keeps symptoms at bay. There are so many stories of people on this forum who bought chickens, fell in love with them, then discovered they carry various incurable avian diseases. It always pains me to see the stress and grief that brings to new chicken owners, and that includes @Chopper923 . But yes, as @TropicalChickies said, the road does get smoother, clearer and easier up ahead for those who choose to soldier on. When you learn exactly what afflicts your flock, you can better implement a plan of action to manage it.

@Chopper923 , you mentioned not being able to get a vet appt for several weeks. Some vets will test a stool sample for worms without seeing the chicken. You could inquire, or just assume your flock members have worms and use the fenbendazole to treat them. I have found no information that it could be harmful to deworm a sick chicken that Might not have worms. But worms can certainly cause further decline to a chicken that is ill for another reason(s).

 

[Chopper923]

[Her symptoms could unfortunately be respiratory disease symptoms too, and that certainly crossed my mind when I watched the video. Especially since someone sold you very sick chicks, and yes, avian respiratory diseases are much more common than gapeworm. Have you seen any typical respiratory disease symptoms in your flock such as bubbles in the corners of eyes, nasal drainage, coughing, sneezing? With the problems the chicks came with, I would be very surprised if they don't have worms too. And though deworming Can be a shock to a bird's system as the worms die off if the bird carries a very high worm load, a high worm load is very detrimental to a bird's health too. If you want a second opinion before you deworm the chick in the video, by all means tag others who have helped you here, and wait for their response. That won't bother me at all; I think multiple opinions are always good.

If another one of your chickens die, I assume you have been encouraged to submit the body to your state lab for a necropsy? If/when you do so, I think it will bring you great peace of mind to know what all you are dealing with. Even if your flock carries several diseases, that's better than playing whack-a-mole as you try to treat their symptoms. Once you know what diseases they may carry, you can develop a plan of action to take it from there.

I had read about the impact of deworming a bird with a heavy load, and that is worrisome. I understand the risk, but I also understand that not treating would be a death sentence. I do wonder about respiratory infections, too. So far I have not seen any bubbles in the corner of eyes and no drainage from the nose. We have heard our main rooster sneeze a couple of times in the past week. I will read more on the respiratory diseases and see if any of them might fit the symptoms. @azygous gave me more info on labs for testing, which I have looked into. I didn't realize that it could be over $100 per bird, but having an answer would definitely give me some direction. I do NOT like playing whack-a-mole! I value your opinion, and I know you are giving me suggestions based on your experiences and knowledge.

 

[Chopper923]

@Allsfairinloveandbugs @TropicalChickies @azygous @Wyorp Rock @Eggcessive @TillyPeeps

I can honestly say that I am beyond amazed by the support here. I don't even know how to express my appreciation for the compassion and wisdom of you all...AND I don't feel alone in this. I hope to someday be able to provide the same level of comfort and guidance to the newbies as you have given me.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

I didn't realize that it could be over $100 per bird, but having an answer would definitely give me some direction. I do NOT like playing whack-a-mole! I value your opinion, and I know you are giving me suggestions based on your experiences and knowledge.

It will cost money to get a correct diagnosis, whatever route you choose. You can check with your state lab to find out if a necropsy cost less than the live test for Marek's disease. If so, you can wait until you lose another bird, then submit the body then. Identifying the invisible, unknown monsters (avian diseases) afflicting a flock is in my book, priceless.