Accepting what might be and pushing forward.....need advice on multiple concerns.

[TropicalChickies]

We received some preliminary reports this morning.

Positive for:
Turkey Hemorragic Enteritis Virus
Avian Mycoplasma synoviae
Avian Mycoplasma gallisepticum

Negative for:
Infectious Bursal Disease Virus
Avian Pneumovirus
Infectious Bronchitis Virus
Avian Mycoplasma meleagradis

Any comments on this would be appreciated. I am reading a lot, but of course the scientific data is over my head. I will look over the resources provided on this site. I will be calling the lab shortly to ask a few questions...I do not see that they've tested for Marek's, but maybe that takes longer? (I was told it will take abput 3 weeks for final results.)

All three of the diseases they tested positive for are potentially fatal. And they are known to kill in exactly the way your flock has been reduced -- one death at a time.

The upside: MS and MG are bacterial infections. And enteritis usually causes secondary bacterial infections that are more dangerous than the virus itself.

This means a round of antibiotics for everyone will only help at this point and not be in vain.

Now you need to decide which antibiotic and how to administer it. I believe amoxicillin is used most often for enteritis, but do some research. MS and MG can be tough to treat as they are known to be antibiotic resistant, but now that you know you have bacterial infections present, at least you know that antibiotics are what you need to use.

It can be confusing. There's many antibiotics out there -- tetracyclines, floaxins, etc. I'm sure others here can advise on what has worked for them. Doxycycline is often recommended for respiratory infections in particular.

Btw, you don't need "chicken antibiotics"! Any "broad spectrum" human versions will likely help get this under control and at least reduce the mortality in your group.

Good to have some answer at last for you to work with.

 

[Chopper923]

Thank you for your quick response! Yes, now to come up with a plan and direction to go.

One of our young leghorns injured it's right leg...now break, but my husband flet what might be a dislocation. We put her in a dog kennel so that she had easy access to water and food and so she wouldn't get trampled. The next day, i put her in the chicken sling and started her on Vitamin B Complex and Vitamin E. I also gave her the water/sugar/salt/baking soda mixture. My husband was goung to tlresearch more info on how to treat/fix when he got home that evening. He didn't get a chance to because she stopped using BOTH legs. She only lays on her side now. If my flock DOES have Marek's, I suppose symptoms appear quickly after an injury? I just don't get it...I dont understand how fast she declined.

I just left a message for the doctor at the lab to call back. My husband has concerns, wondering if the turkey virus can cause health issues to people or dogs. We cannot seem to find an answer online.

Sorry, I know I'm all over the place with my message....

 

[azygous]

With rare exceptions, viruses only target a specific life form and do not cross over. (Covid is one excelption and avian influenza may be another that cross over to humans) This means that chicken viruses prefer chickens, human viruses prefer humans.

As for Marek's, it has obvious organ changes so it's usually apparent at necropsy if Marek's is present in the bird.

 

[Chopper923]

With rare exceptions, viruses only target a specific life form and do not cross over. (Covid is one excelption and avian influenza may be another that cross over to humans) This means that chicken viruses prefer chickens, human viruses prefer humans.

As for Marek's, it has obvious organ changes so it's usually apparent at necropsy if Marek's is present in the bird.

Thank you for clarifying...that is good to know!

 

[Chopper923]

I talked to the doctor at the lab, and she was very kind to take the time to explain some things, but of course it was a lot to take in. They do NOT test for Marek's there, but she did not see any tumors or other traits of Marek's. She had also called down to Georgia's lab (and a couple of others to get some cost comparisons), and it would be another $165 or so to send the bird down there for the Marek's test.

Also positive for salmonella. She also believes that we are still dealing with Coccidiosis even though we had treated all birds a few months ago. I didn't think about how the birds ingest poop, reinfesting themselves.

The doctor gave me the contact info for a specialist at the university who deals specifically with backyard chickens...hoping to get more understanding of which treatment to go with.

Although I am happy to be getting some results, I know some very hard days will be coming. Just wish I could toughen up a bit. I'm such a crybaby, lol.

I will post as I get more results.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

As far as your flock carrying MG and MS, Denagard (tiamulin) is very effective in controlling symptoms. And since the med is not used in human medicine, it remains available OTC, unlike Tylan (tylosin) which is now only available with a prescription. The reason that MG and MS are resistant to other antibiotics is because Mycoplasmas don't have a cell wall. Most antibiotics don't kill bacteria outright, but destroy their cell walls, which prevents the bacteria from multiplying until the bacteria eventually die. Tiamulin (the active ingredient in Denagard) is used off-label for poultry in the U.S., but has been approved in Europe and other countries for over 30 years. Since you will also be re-treating for coccidiosis, i want to mention that Denagard is incompatible with some anti-coccidistats, including causing death. However, Denagard is safe to give when treating simultaneously with amprolium, the active ingredient in Corid as well as most medicated chick-starter feed sold in the U.S. Whatever other antibiotics you need for the other diseases, definitely use Denagard for Mycoplasma. The dosage is 3 teaspoons per gallon of water for treatment, and 1 1/2 teaspoons per gallon of water for preventative. Give medicated water for 5 days for treatment, and then 3 days monthly for preventative. The med isn't stable in water for more than 24 hours, so you will need to change out the water daily. Finally, the med is very bitter, so add plenty of juice or honey to the treated water to sweeten the taste. Earlier in your thread I mentioned that my first flock of chickens came carrying MG, and so I can personally vouch that Denagard is a miracle "cure", as far as keeping Mycoplasma symptoms at bay. I've never had MS in my flock, but the species does cause lameness, symptoms you have seen in your flock. Though there is no treatment for Marek's, Denard will control lameness symptoms caused by MS. There is tons of info on the internet as well as on BYC, as to the effectiveness of Denagard to treat and control mycoplasma symptoms in poultry.
https://zpoultry.com/denagard-for-chickens/

 

[TropicalChickies]

Thank you for your quick response! Yes, now to come up with a plan and direction to go.

One of our young leghorns injured it's right leg...now break, but my husband flet what might be a dislocation. We put her in a dog kennel so that she had easy access to water and food and so she wouldn't get trampled. The next day, i put her in the chicken sling and started her on Vitamin B Complex and Vitamin E. I also gave her the water/sugar/salt/baking soda mixture. My husband was goung to tlresearch more info on how to treat/fix when he got home that evening. He didn't get a chance to because she stopped using BOTH legs. She only lays on her side now. If my flock DOES have Marek's, I suppose symptoms appear quickly after an injury? I just don't get it...I dont understand how fast she declined.

I just left a message for the doctor at the lab to call back. My husband has concerns, wondering if the turkey virus can cause health issues to people or dogs. We cannot seem to find an answer online.

Sorry, I know I'm all over the place with my message....

Keep us posted on the leghorn. When my hen Butchie was a three month pullet, she badly twisted and strained one leg. Even though it was only one leg injured, she lay on her side most of the time for about three weeks. She eventually recovered and is now 3 years old. Her leg still is a bit twisted, but she gets around.

 

[Chopper923]

As far as your flock carrying MG and MS, Denagard (tiamulin) is very effective in controlling symptoms. And since the med is not used in human medicine, it remains available OTC, unlike Tylan (tylosin) which is now only available with a prescription. The reason that MG and MS are resistant to other antibiotics is because Mycoplasmas don't have a cell wall. Most antibiotics don't kill bacteria outright, but destroy their cell walls, which prevents the bacteria from multiplying until the bacteria eventually die. Tiamulin (the active ingredient in Denagard) is used off-label for poultry in the U.S., but has been approved in Europe and other countries for over 30 years. Since you will also be re-treating for coccidiosis, i want to mention that Denagard is incompatible with some anti-coccidistats, including causing death. However, Denagard is safe to give when treating simultaneously with amprolium, the active ingredient in Corid as well as most medicated chick-starter feed sold in the U.S. Whatever other antibiotics you need for the other diseases, definitely use Denagard for Mycoplasma. The dosage is 3 teaspoons per gallon of water for treatment, and 1 1/2 teaspoons per gallon of water for preventative. Give medicated water for 5 days for treatment, and then 3 days monthly for preventative. The med isn't stable in water for more than 24 hours, so you will need to change out the water daily. Finally, the med is very bitter, so add plenty of juice or honey to the treated water to sweeten the taste. Earlier in your thread I mentioned that my first flock of chickens came carrying MG, and so I can personally vouch that Denagard is a miracle "cure", as far as keeping Mycoplasma symptoms at bay. I've never had MS in my flock, but the species does cause lameness, symptoms you have seen in your flock. Though there is no treatment for Marek's, Denard will control lameness symptoms caused by MS. There is tons of info on the internet as well as on BYC, as to the effectiveness of Denagard to treat and control mycoplasma symptoms in poultry.
https://zpoultry.com/denagard-for-chickens/

View attachment 3582350

Thank you for explaining!!

 

[TropicalChickies]

Salmonella is a common bacterial infection that often accompanies enteritis (usually calked a "secondary infection.") Antibiotics will help with this as well.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

As far as ordering antibiotics, you can order bird antibiotics through the following company
https://jedds.com/ ,

and you can order fish antibiotics through Chewy.com and some other sites, which means you don't need a vet prescription. For example, amoxycillin is used in fish and birds, and it is exactly the same as amoxycillin that we humans use. I agree with @TropicalChickies that the fact the necropsy shows bacterial infections is actually "good" news, as far as the fact their symptoms can be treated. Without the necropsy report, you would have had no clue. Salmonella is a genus that includes several species, one of which causes fowl typhoid. That is a respiratory disease like MG, but Denagard is not an effective treatment, so you will need to order an effective antibiotic for the salmonella genus from a bird, fish, etc., site. The breathing symptoms your chick was showing in the video you posted could be from either Mycoplasma or salmonella. I believe the final necropsy report will help you develop a clear plan going forward to control symptoms in your flock and help prevent further deaths. It is disappointing they don't test for Marek's Disease, but at least they the necropsy report lets you know what you Can treat for. If you still see lameness and death after treating with antibiotics, it may be safe to assume your flock also carries Marek's, without having to spend an additional $165 to confirm. I'm very sorry your chicken journey has been so stressful, hard and sad, when chickens bring so much joy to our lives. But I feel very hopeful you can gain control of the situation, and going forward, it's going to get better and be ok.