advice for buying breeding stock at shows

[95yj]

Alot of "serious" breeders (the ones with the best birds) are just in it cause they love the birds or the breed. Start a conversation with a breeder and if they seem eager to tell you lots of stuff about the breed of bird, showing, chickens in general and that sort of thing then they may be a good breeder. If your just getting into the hobby breeders will often give you good birds for low prices because they want to see you get into the hobby. If your a teenager even better because they want to see the younger generation get into it. I'm not saying that the talkativeness of a breeder will determine the quality of there birds, but someone who really cares about the hobby isn't going to bring or sell sick birds, and will probably be honest in a sale.

 

[NYREDS]

Most call their culls by the terms Breeder Quailty and Pet Quality.

Actually this is more BYC terminology-I've never heard these terms used in the show world.
This thread has wandered far & wide from the OP with some good & some not so good advice.
For anyone wanting to get involved in seriously breeding chickens [or anything else for that matter] the first thing to do is learn the breed. Buy or borrow a copy of the Standard & study it thoroughly. Then go to a few shows & compare what you've learned from the Standard to the birds that are winning. Talk to people showing the breed you're interested in. I don't know anyone who won't happily talk all day about their birds.
The next step is to familiarize yourself with the breeding process & especially develop an undeerstanding of line breeding. Contrary to what mant believe there's more to breeding than just putting a male & female together. That is of course if you want to produce a desireable outcome.
Then you're ready to buy some birds. Buy from only one breeder. Don't mix strains. That's the surest way to ruin a line of birds. Down the road you may want to do an outcross but do it judiciously & know what you're trying to achieve.
If you start out this way you'll save yourself time, money & frustration but very few people start out this way.
Remember, it costs the same to feed a good bird as it does to feed a poor one & it's better to hatch 20 chicks from a good pair than to hatch a hundred chicks from a poor pen of 10.​

 

[GracefulBantams]

Quote:
Actually this is more BYC terminology-I've never heard these terms used in the show world.

I wouldn't say that. I have heard it used by some experienced breeders in the "show world". For example, I talked to a very good breeder (always wins Class Champions and it's not uncommon to see her win show champion at local shows) about Call Ducks I was interested in buying from her, but told her they did not have to do well in shows because I was more interested in raising some ducklings from them, and she said "Okay, you want Breeder Quality birds, then?"

And I have heard it used at shows in other occasions; this was just one example that stood out.

 

[big medicine]

Quote:
I have seen recessive white refered to as a switch that when thrown masks the true genetic make up of the color present. It requires a copy from both parents to show itself. Here is the version of Henks calculator that I like to use, it should help you get your mind around some of this.
http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html

 

[SundownWaterfowl]

Buy from only one breeder. Don't mix strains.

I don't agree with that, at least from my experience. I have mixed several strains kept together, and also mated the birds to keep the strains pure, and I have gotten some amazing birds from mixing strains together. I do agree though, that sometimes mixing strains can produce nothing but problems.​

 

[riftnreef]

What a fun thread...

Cracked-egg...just some follow-up advice for the Ohio Nationals. The sellers area is an absolute mad house for most of the show. I think some folks bring in way too many birds and use the show as a swap meet. Since you have a very specific breed in mind, and you know what color patterens you are looking for I would go with the advice already given by many here. Get into the breed club and the APA/ABA. Find the frequent winners and breeders and talk to them before November. You may be able to make a deal of sorts prior to the show and a breeder that had no intention on selling may bring some stock with them for you to look at. Make sure you are serious about your inquiries and willing to dish out the $$ should the quality be what you have in mind.

Lastly, hang out in the Wyandott row for most of the show and buddy up with the exhibitors...(don't be a pest though) When it's all said and done, those birds that finished lower than anticipated by the shower may very well be for sale so they don't have to drag them home, and in some VERY rare circumstances the best showers will sell also. Maybe the birds have some age and they have many more just like them at home, or maybe it's just to expensive to fly them home...either way, you could get lucky or strike out.

I wish I could get a breeding program going myself, but living in town and having the "shower" in the family as an 11yo girl that wants every animal she lays her eyes on we can't keep on single breed long enough to do it...so I have to shop for birds that are of SQ already that someone is willing to part with and she either shows them, or the first or second generation offspring from them. It's not perfect, but shes in it for fun not fame...

 

[big medicine]

I should add, if you have not already been playing around on Henk's wonderfull calculator, click on "show examples" just to the right of the picture. Click on the picture of your color of choice, to get silver penciled I use black patterned gold multiple laced partridge/brown, then go down and change s+ gold/wild type to S silver. If you go down to C recessive white and play around with that, it may help you.

 

[big medicine]

Quote:
I don't agree with that, at least from my experience. I have mixed several strains kept together, and also mated the birds to keep the strains pure, and I have gotten some amazing birds from mixing strains together. I do agree though, that sometimes mixing strains can produce nothing but problems.

With experience comes knowledge.

 

[cracked_egg]

Quote:
I love this saying! We use it all the time to new clients looking to buy a horse!

Thank you for your input! I was just reading about how to line breed chickens (as we'd never do that with a horse for more than a generation, and some of our best horses come from out crosses.)

Now, in chickens, when you do bring in outside blood, do you find the first generation to not be as good, but breeding that generation back in with your "line" to be best?

For example, we have a lot of south african imports in my breed (horses) and *sometimes* the first cross is good, but usually the second and third generation is great. I have a mare who is by a SA stud and out of an american mare, she is a nice mare, but she has been a true asset in the breeding shed as she has continued to out-produce herself when bred back to american studs bred similarly to her. Her '10 colt is by a stallion who came from the same farm she did, and I think he might be my best colt yet. Very correct but also ambitious.

 

[NYREDS]

Quote:
I don't agree with that, at least from my experience. I have mixed several strains kept together, and also mated the birds to keep the strains pure, and I have gotten some amazing birds from mixing strains together. I do agree though, that sometimes mixing strains can produce nothing but problems.

With experience comes knowledge.

With somewhere around 50 years expeience I thought I had begun to accumulate some knowledge. However, on this board, I am regularly told how little I know.