Advice on rats and building a new coop?

[1chip2chicks3cheeks]

I tried to make it as much like a forest floor as possible. It is 12+ inches deep of: mostly maple leaves (maybe 80%), pine shavings (maybe 10%), strips of pine bark and willow bark and maple bark from when I debarked some saplings, lawn clippings, dandelion roots, twigs, a little oat straw, a bucket of compressed wood meant for pellet stoves, some hulls, dirt and ashes the chickens spread from the dust bath, handfulls of sawdust and drill curlies, other such debris.

That sounds cool! I like the idea of it being natural for them.

 

[Bridget B]

We had terriers for 18 years and never had a rat problem. Rats are smart enough to avoid yards with terriers. My next door neighbor had nests of them under her shed, while our shed remained undisturbed. Then our last terrier died of old age. We had a rat problem instantly. Here in Arizona, roof rats that eat citrus are the main characters that cause trouble. Sadly they also eat grain and chicken feed. We trapped like crazy and had a conversation with the neighbor about trapping and baiting. Between the two of us we managed to get the problem under control.

While building our new coop and run we concentrated on rat security every step of the way. We placed 1/4 inch hardware cloth over every opening and under anything the rats could squeeze into. The coop was built with legs 6 inches off the ground as we have an irrigated yard. Those legs and the attached wood bottom of the coop was wrapped tight with the HWC. Every window and vent is impenetrable. We have had no rats to date, and its been over a year since we finished the coop and run. It can be done, when you are building a new setup.

Invest in at least 6 good old fashioned rat traps, bait them with a piece of sweet granola bars. We used the bars from Walmart that had oats and sweet honey nugget bar. They went ape over that stuff. I would get a couple of cats or a good sturdy terrier, then you should not have rats anymore. I wish you success, and keep us posted.

 

[rosemarythyme]

I would prefer to have all chickens together in a big enough coop and enough run space that they should get along. I wonder why people with larger flocks separate them into smaller flocks?

Since you mentioned wanting about 140 birds, are they all going to be the same breed? if you're breeding different breeds, you'd want to keep the breeds apart so you don't end up hatching unintended crossbreeds.

And there's always the possibility that multiple roosters may not get along, especially if they're confined or space is otherwise an issue.

 

[3KillerBs]

Thank you so much for all the ideas!!! Very helpful. I wasn’t planning on doing deep litter in the coop but would prefer to do it in one of the runs. I felt a bit more comfortable with deep bedding in the coop itself. But not sure if that’s possible with open air coops since deep bedding is a dry method?

Have you read my article on Deep Bedding? I focused on small coops, but the principles scale.

A lot depends on what kind of floor you're going to have. A dirt floor favors the actively-composting Deep Litter system, a solid floor favors Deep Bedding.

BIG roof overhangs and correct orientation of the solid walls are key to keeping the interior dry for an Open Air coop if you're going the Deep Bedding direction.

I wonder if, given your location, your local Habitat ReStore might have old Jalousie Windows? Offering a free flow of air while keeping the rain out is what they were designed for back in the days before air conditioning existed.

Back them with hardware cloth and blowing rain isn't much of a problem anymore -- though it would cost more.

There are also top-hinged windows: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/window-support-for-top-hinged-windows.74810/

I would prefer to have all chickens together in a big enough coop and enough run space that they should get along. I wonder why people with larger flocks separate them into smaller flocks?

Because smaller structures are easier to build (you may need a building permit for a structure that large -- 24x24 is larger than a 2-car garage).

Because they want to control the breeding, pairing specific hens with specific roosters.

Because roosters often do not get along even when we think that they *ought* to. A rooster doesn't naturally think "It's OK for him to have those 10 hens because I have my 10 hens." He thinks "All the hens are MINE." It's called "cockfighting" for a reason.

Because it's easier to keep track of the health and welfare of a flock that's been divided into smaller groups. In a vast crowd it's easy to overlook a bird that is sick or even missing. When you have them in set groups you notice if Pen A is short 2 hens or one of the birds in Pen C is limping.

Because if you're seriously into production you'll want to cycle your flock by age -- replacing hens and roosters on a schedule to maintain peak productivity.

I doubt it is universally possible. As in any version deep bedding in any version of open air in any climate for any density of birds with any system of feeding and watering.

Right.

There is no one-size-fits-all method for raising chickens.

 

[1chip2chicks3cheeks]

Since you mentioned wanting about 140 birds, are they all going to be the same breed? if you're breeding different breeds, you'd want to keep the breeds apart so you don't end up hatching unintended crossbreeds.

And there's always the possibility that multiple roosters may not get along, especially if they're confined or space is otherwise an issue.

I’m not sure if they will be the same breed, I haven’t looked that far ahead but I know that I want to get rescue hens (if that will work with my existing chickens, I don’t know since they may be more fragile). I don’t plan on breeding, though. 140 is more than enough!

I would never give them less than adequate space but I suppose there is a chance they may still decide to fight anyway.

 

[3KillerBs]

I would never give them less than adequate space but I suppose there is a chance they may still decide to fight anyway.

When it comes to roosters space is no guarantee of good behavior.

It HELPS. That's certain. But it's more likely that roosters kept together will fight than that they won't fight.

 

[1chip2chicks3cheeks]

Have you read my article on Deep Bedding? I focused on small coops, but the principles scale.

A lot depends on what kind of floor you're going to have. A dirt floor favors the actively-composting Deep Litter system, a solid floor favors Deep Bedding.

BIG roof overhangs and correct orientation of the solid walls are key to keeping the interior dry for an Open Air coop if you're going the Deep Bedding direction.

I wonder if, given your location, your local Habitat ReStore might have old Jalousie Windows? Offering a free flow of air while keeping the rain out is what they were designed for back in the days before air conditioning existed.

View attachment 3082789

Back them with hardware cloth and blowing rain isn't much of a problem anymore -- though it would cost more.

There are also top-hinged windows: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/window-support-for-top-hinged-windows.74810/



Because smaller structures are easier to build (you may need a building permit for a structure that large -- 24x24 is larger than a 2-car garage).

Because they want to control the breeding, pairing specific hens with specific roosters.

Because roosters often do not get along even when we think that they *ought* to. A rooster doesn't naturally think "It's OK for him to have those 10 hens because I have my 10 hens." He thinks "All the hens are MINE." It's called "cockfighting" for a reason.

Because it's easier to keep track of the health and welfare of a flock that's been divided into smaller groups. In a vast crowd it's easy to overlook a bird that is sick or even missing. When you have them in set groups you notice if Pen A is short 2 hens or one of the birds in Pen C is limping.

Because if you're seriously into production you'll want to cycle your flock by age -- replacing hens and roosters on a schedule to maintain peak productivity.



Right.

There is no one-size-fits-all method for raising chickens.

I’ve never heard of Jalousie windows but that sounds cool! Might be something to consider depending on cost. Those reasons for separating them make sense! Just wasn’t really sure, since I always see that to keep multiple roosters together you need to have enough hens per rooster. But then if I’m going to build I wouldn’t want to chance it not working out between them. I do have three separate groups of roosters that get along well even with the presence of hens, as mentioned, and I wonder if I’d be able to keep them in the same pens with enough hens? That would probably mean 4 pens, instead of 13. Just thinking it would make things simpler in terms of building and the multiple runs I want to do. Thinking of multiple runs for 13 coops is overwhelming to say the least.

I do like the idea of being better able to keep track of their health, so I’ll separate them for that purpose if nothing else!

 

[3KillerBs]

I’ve never heard of Jalousie windows but that sounds cool!

Oh? They're very much an old Florida thing. I remember my FIL replacing them on the house he bought when he retired to Florida and added a heat pump for whole-house air.

That would probably mean 4 pens, instead of 13. Just thinking it would make things simpler in terms of building and the multiple runs I want to do. Thinking of multiple runs for 13 coops is overwhelming to say the least.

What I've seen looks like a stable row -- a long, open pen with dividers and, likewise, a long run with dividers. Doors into each section and between sections.

Like a row of dog kennels, but set up for chickens:

I have a serious case of shed envy when I pass a house not far from here where they apparently once bred hounds and have a 6-8 section kennel row with large exercise pens that would have been amazing for chickens.

 

[1chip2chicks3cheeks]

Oh? They're very much an old Florida thing. I remember my FIL replacing them on the house he bought when he retired to Florida and added a heat pump for whole-house air.



What I've seen looks like a stable row -- a long, open pen with dividers and, likewise, a long run with dividers. Doors into each section and between sections.

Like a row of dog kennels, but set up for chickens:

View attachment 3083074

I have a serious case of shed envy when I pass a house not far from here where they apparently once bred hounds and have a 6-8 section kennel row with large exercise pens that would have been amazing for chickens.

I’ll have to check them out

The rows are a good idea but I still want them to have proper coops rather than pens! So maybe a row of coops?

 

[3KillerBs]

I’ll have to check them out

The rows are a good idea but I still want them to have proper coops rather than pens! So maybe a row of coops?

Whatever suits your preferences.

You could also go with one big building and separate sections inside, but it would be harder to create the runs for that.