Ailing wee Pea

[Garden Peas]

Pen dynamics... yes, @KsKingBee and @DylansMom and @casportpony and @thndrdancr , you are all, individually and collectively correct

The wee peas were hanging out in the bird house to stay warm, but I am now guessing, also to stay out of the way. The now-larger of the two, Diamond, is holding her own and is soon to be as big as the adults, so they are leaving her alone more. The smaller one, Topaz, is apparently getting picked on more by the big ones. Interestingly, she's the one who was initially doing the best around the big peas. But she is more skittish in general (though hard to tell from the riding around in the car looking at the scenery photos), and she is now the one who is more afraid of the big birds. I think the picking on her had been escalating and I hadn't realized it.

I am guessing that the eyeball injury happened sometime Saturday night or possibly earlier in the day on Saturday. I think that's why she was hanging out on the roost on Sunday all day, but that eye was turned away from me so I didn't see it when I looked at her. But she was turned the other direction on the roost Sunday evening, and that's when one of the males reached over for her head and she was trying so hard to get her head (and that eyeball) away from him. So yes, it has "target" painted all over it.

Now that she's in the crate and I am messing with her, I can also see that someone has been picking at the base of her crest feathers in the back. She still has a lot of crest feathers, so it's not noticeable from a distance. But up close, you can see the little line of scabbing. So she's getting pecked a lot more than the occasional jab in her direction that the BS hen has been doing when she wants to remind her who's queen of the universe. And yes, the queen of the universe is pretty cranky towards the wee peas, though she usually doesn't chase them around, she just takes one swipe to tell them to get lost, and the wee peas scoot away like rocket powered little jets.

But I think the change in pen dynamics is coming from the increased hormonal activity in the boys. I think they've got exactly one thing on their minds.... I've caught them chasing after the wee peas -- they don't have a processing mechanism to tell them -- or to care -- that the wee peas are still babies. So I think that may be putting a new level of pressure and harassment on the babies. And the littlest one is probably dodging so much that she has not been eating as she should the last few weeks.

So it's pretty clear that Miss Topaz should not get tossed back to the wolves in long tail feathers out in the big pen. I'll keep her in the dog crate until she's done with her meds for sure. Dunno about what's next, though. I can expand the pen and divide it into two... I already had tentative plans to do that. But didn't have a second bird house or adequate shelter figured out for second pen. (It is, technically, still set up as a large pen and a smaller annex, since I had to do that when introducing the wee peas initially). But there really needs to be another bird house, and this is a fairly small back yard

I just have to keep banging my head on this till I get it figured out, I guess. But I don't think reassembling the gang is going to be good for her health.

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

Poor girl, hoping all the best for you and her, you definitely shouldn't put her back there, especially since she is weaker now, is there any young hens with those males yet?

 

[casportpony]

Here is something I found about Cipro drops, Baytril and eyes.

"My dog is being treated with Cipro drops and Baytril for uveitis.
Customer Question

My dog is being treated with Cipro drops and Baytril for uveitis. She is also taking methazolamide 7.5mg tid. Should she not be on a steroid, too? And does Baytril work on eye infections? Her eye looks like it has alot of fluid in it. I have canine aspirin but don't give it to her regularly, should I start?


Expert: Dr. Michael Salkin replied 3 years ago.
Aloha! You're speaking to Dr. Michael Salkin
Hi - Yes, enrofloxacin (Baytril) is in the fluoroquinolone class of antibiotics (as is ciprofloxacin) - a class that penetrates into the eye quite well - much better than Clavamox. Reducing inflammation by the use of corticosteroids is the goal of treatment before inflammatory sequelae produce blindness. Reducing inflammation with steroids will also alleviate ocular pain minimizing the need for aspirin or another nonsteroidal antiinflammatory drug. In fact, the use of nonsteroidal antiinflammatories concomitantly with steroids is contraindicated in our dogs. The use of methazolimide puzzles me. It's used primarily for open angle glaucoma. Perhaps Isis has glaucoma in addition to uveitis? That's not uncommon. I'm worried about what you're seeing. "Alot of fluid in the eye" (an enlarging globe?) and a blue cast (swollen cornea) is suggestive of glaucoma. Please respond with further questions or concerns if you wish.

​

Dr. Michael Salkin, Veterinarian
Category: Dog Veterinary
Satisfied Customers: 13953
Experience: University of California at Davis graduate veterinarian with 42 years of experience"


Read more: http://www.justanswer.com/dog-health/626qn-dog-treated-cipro-drops-baytril-uveitis.html#ixzz3OidX7i00

That also mentions using steroids to reduce inflammation, but I'm pretty sure that it's contraindicated when there is an ulcer.

-Kathy

Edited to add:
Guess my point here is that in this case it was a wise decision to give the Baytril.

 

[casportpony]

@gardenpeas , glad you were able to get her to a vet and it's always good to hear what amount of drugs of vets recommend. FWIW, the vets I have seen have recommended the following:

• 10mg/kg twice a day for five days
• 15mg/kg once a day for five days
• 20mg/kg once a day for five days

There was one time that they recommended one of the above amounts (don't remember which one) for 10 days, so your vets recommendation is well within the normal range, as it should be, lol, after all, they are the vet.

Guess all I'm trying to say is that I think you're doing the right thing and that you have found a good vet.

-Kathy

 

[zazouse]

Pen dynamics... yes, @KsKingBee and @DylansMom and @casportpony and @thndrdancr , you are all, individually and collectively correct

The wee peas were hanging out in the bird house to stay warm, but I am now guessing, also to stay out of the way. The now-larger of the two, Diamond, is holding her own and is soon to be as big as the adults, so they are leaving her alone more. The smaller one, Topaz, is apparently getting picked on more by the big ones. Interestingly, she's the one who was initially doing the best around the big peas. But she is more skittish in general (though hard to tell from the riding around in the car looking at the scenery photos), and she is now the one who is more afraid of the big birds. I think the picking on her had been escalating and I hadn't realized it.

I am guessing that the eyeball injury happened sometime Saturday night or possibly earlier in the day on Saturday. I think that's why she was hanging out on the roost on Sunday all day, but that eye was turned away from me so I didn't see it when I looked at her. But she was turned the other direction on the roost Sunday evening, and that's when one of the males reached over for her head and she was trying so hard to get her head (and that eyeball) away from him. So yes, it has "target" painted all over it.

Now that she's in the crate and I am messing with her, I can also see that someone has been picking at the base of her crest feathers in the back. She still has a lot of crest feathers, so it's not noticeable from a distance. But up close, you can see the little line of scabbing. So she's getting pecked a lot more than the occasional jab in her direction that the BS hen has been doing when she wants to remind her who's queen of the universe. And yes, the queen of the universe is pretty cranky towards the wee peas, though she usually doesn't chase them around, she just takes one swipe to tell them to get lost, and the wee peas scoot away like rocket powered little jets.

But I think the change in pen dynamics is coming from the increased hormonal activity in the boys. I think they've got exactly one thing on their minds.... I've caught them chasing after the wee peas -- they don't have a processing mechanism to tell them -- or to care -- that the wee peas are still babies. So I think that may be putting a new level of pressure and harassment on the babies. And the littlest one is probably dodging so much that she has not been eating as she should the last few weeks.

So it's pretty clear that Miss Topaz should not get tossed back to the wolves in long tail feathers out in the big pen. I'll keep her in the dog crate until she's done with her meds for sure. Dunno about what's next, though. I can expand the pen and divide it into two... I already had tentative plans to do that. But didn't have a second bird house or adequate shelter figured out for second pen. (It is, technically, still set up as a large pen and a smaller annex, since I had to do that when introducing the wee peas initially). But there really needs to be another bird house, and this is a fairly small back yard

I just have to keep banging my head on this till I get it figured out, I guess. But I don't think reassembling the gang is going to be good for her health.

How big is the pen the injured hen was in?
Is it big enough to make a round pen inside of it so she could be in with them but to where they could not pick on her? if you do this she most likely will be able to be put back in with the flock as they will get tired of trying to pick on her cause they are getting nowhere and she could eventually be turned out with the rest.

These are small chicks that i used as an example but it is the same principle

 

[Garden Peas]

Poor girl, hoping all the best for you and her, you definitely shouldn't put her back there, especially since she is weaker now, is there any young hens with those males yet?

There's a coming three year old hen who's chunking out eggs like a machine. That was the only hen I had, until @Bluecreekfarms sent me the two wee peas. The opal SP wee pea is still in there with the adults, including the egg chunker.

 

[Garden Peas]

How big is the pen the injured hen was in?
Is it big enough to make a round pen inside of it so she could be in with them but to where they could not pick on her? if you do this she most likely will be able to be put back in with the flock as they will get tired of trying to pick on her cause they are getting nowhere and she could eventually be turned out with the rest.

These are small chicks that i used as an example but it is the same principle

Zaz, that's a great idea! I was actually copying from when you said that earlier, when I put up the additional pen panels tied onto the existing pen. Problem is I don't have another house or heated place for them to hang out. So it will be awhile, unless I can magically solve the housing problem.

 

[Garden Peas]

I just wanted to let everyone know that Miss Topaz is continuing to improve. She's not yet 100%, but the swelling continues to subside and the eye is actually starting to look somewhat clearer (other than at the point of the swelling). I am so very, very grateful that you all steered me in the right direction on the injury thing... I was just so convinced that it had to be a sinus infection, and never having seen either a sinus infection OR an eyeball injury in one of my birds, I wasn't sure what I was seeing. But you were exactly right.

I'm watching as closely as I can, hoping that the bigger birds don't start escalating the harassment of the other wee pea, now that Topaz is hanging out like a house pea. No clue what I am going to do for the rest of the winter... I guess I have a week to figure it out.

Thanks again, so much, for the excellent advice.

 

[thndrdancr]

So glad she is doing better, she is such a pretty thing!

 

[Garden Peas]

@gardenpeas , glad you were able to get her to a vet and it's always good to hear what amount of drugs of vets recommend. FWIW, the vets I have seen have recommended the following:

• 10mg/kg twice a day for five days
• 15mg/kg once a day for five days
• 20mg/kg once a day for five days

There was one time that they recommended one of the above amounts (don't remember which one) for 10 days, so your vets recommendation is well within the normal range, as it should be, lol, after all, they are the vet.

Guess all I'm trying to say is that I think you're doing the right thing and that you have found a good vet.

-Kathy

Thanks, Kathy, that's very helpful. Yes, I thought the vet was good, and apparently she does a lot of the exotic birds that come in. She mentioned she had a hawk and I forget what other wild bird waiting for surgery and treatment after she finished caring for Topaz. I guess they do a lot of the wildlife rescue avian vet care. And they apparently treat a lot of pet cage birds as well. It's a fairly long drive, but she knew exactly what she was doing and was able to clearly articulate to me what was going on with the eye and the injury. So that was reassuring! I think at least one, and maybe two of the other vets in the practice also treat birds. There are (astonishingly) at least two more vet practices in the area that see birds... I was surprised at how many when I started looking, it may be as many as four more.

But despite all that, apparently peas are few and far between. She liked Topaz... you could tell she actually liked the bird. That's always a nice touch.