Air cell filled with fluid - strategies?

[fatcatx]

I need some suggestions to help some difficult fluid-logged eggs:

I got two different sets of eggs shipped. One set was/is in horrible shape. I followed shipped egg guidelines (I believe it was a Sally Sunshine’s article/thread). I am on day 11 of incubation and air cells still have not settled and have absurdly huge and malformed saddles, and the three viable ones I have left appear completely filled with fluid. The fluid has me the most concerned. I will of course hatch them upright, but what good will that do if there is no air in the cell? Do folks just let nature take its course or do you risk trying to drain the cell, despite that creating a new set of challenges? If you drain, when, and what then? Will the chick still attempt to zip?

Part II of any advice: the second set of shipped eggs came through with flying colors and are doing great. I do not want any strategies for saving the 3 to compromise the success I might have with the other 14.

Help me Egbi One - you’re my only hope!

 

[oregonkat]

Well, I don't know where that Egbi One can have got to, but I will try to offer some advice until he/she shows up!!
Why do you think that the air cells are full of fluid? Are you not seeing an outline of the air cell at all or is there a wiggly, watery outline around the air cell? When you candled them, are you seeing development? It is entirely possible that these eggs are completely scrambled, but there would be no growth. This happened to some of my Barnevelder eggs just recently. Shipped eggs also, the yolk, albumen and the membrane were all mixed up together.
Are all of your eggs on the same schedule?
If you have good growth in the eggs, then yes, hatch the saddled eggs upright, right up until they hatch. Take them out of the turner at lockdown and put them in cardboard cartons that have had the edges cut down low so that the egg sits securely but when hatching takes place the chick will simply 'plop' out of the shell without the edge of the carton getting in the way.

 

[fatcatx]

Well, I don't know where that Egbi One can have got to, but I will try to offer some advice until he/she shows up!!
Why do you think that the air cells are full of fluid? Are you not seeing an outline of the air cell at all or is there a wiggly, watery outline around the air cell? When you candled them, are you seeing development? It is entirely possible that these eggs are completely scrambled, but there would be no growth. This happened to some of my Barnevelder eggs just recently. Shipped eggs also, the yolk, albumen and the membrane were all mixed up together.
Are all of your eggs on the same schedule?
If you have good growth in the eggs, then yes, hatch the saddled eggs upright, right up until they hatch. Take them out of the turner at lockdown and put them in cardboard cartons that have had the edges cut down low so that the egg sits securely but when hatching takes place the chick will simply 'plop' out of the shell without the edge of the carton getting in the way.

Both sets of eggs were set on the same day, and as of Monday, I confirmed movement in all of them.

I can make out a cell line of sorts, but along with it acting like oozing jello, there is no discernable color/light difference between the cell area and the area below it. Any air in the space would shine much brighter than the developing area so that is why I am assuming it is filled with fluid of some sort (maybe goo would be a better description). Am I totally off the mark and this isn’t even possible? I would post a pic but my phone has a weenie camera and cannot take a clear picture in the dark.

I have successfully hatched shipped eggs with saddle cell issues before and these look nothing like those.

 

[fatcatx]

Well, I don't know where that Egbi One can have got to, but I will try to offer some advice until he/she shows up!!
Why do you think that the air cells are full of fluid? Are you not seeing an outline of the air cell at all or is there a wiggly, watery outline around the air cell? When you candled them, are you seeing development? It is entirely possible that these eggs are completely scrambled, but there would be no growth. This happened to some of my Barnevelder eggs just recently. Shipped eggs also, the yolk, albumen and the membrane were all mixed up together.
Are all of your eggs on the same schedule?
If you have good growth in the eggs, then yes, hatch the saddled eggs upright, right up until they hatch. Take them out of the turner at lockdown and put them in cardboard cartons that have had the edges cut down low so that the egg sits securely but when hatching takes place the chick will simply 'plop' out of the shell without the edge of the carton getting in the way.

Both sets of eggs were set on the same day, and as of Monday, I confirmed movement in all of them.

I can make out a cell line of sorts, but along with it acting like oozing jello, there is no discernable color/light difference between the cell area and the area below it. Any air in the space would shine much brighter than the developing area so that is why I am assuming it is filled with fluid of some sort. Am I totally off the mark and this isn’t even possible? I would post a pic but my phone has a weenie camera and cannot take a clear picture in the dark.

I have successfully hatched shipped eggs with saddle cell issues before and these look nothing like those.

 

[oregonkat]

I don't know what to say about the fluid. I suppose if the membrane was pierced somehow, the liquid might have filled the space but I would not expect growth to occur at that point. I am sending out for some more knowledgeable people: @WVduckchick, @aart, @azygous, @KikisGirls, any ideas for this situation?

 

[ChickensAndYoga]

I am following because this is truly interesting. I have never seen such a thing. Is there a way at all to get pics?

 

[WVduckchick]

Is it at all possible that the fluid you think you are seeing inside the air cell is really just the membrane sloshing over to the side, like a loose baggie? Since the air cells are saddled, the candling can be deceiving.
Or.... was the air cell totally detached?? I mean did it move freely around the whole egg, or did it just loosen some of the inner membrane around the regular spot?

What day are they on and do you see blood vessels filling all the insides, or are there still some clear areas? I ask because if the vessels are well-dispersed, you could limit turning and try to get the air cell to reattach.

 

[fatcatx]

I tried getting pic but phone camera useless in the dark. The air cell was completely detached on delivery and never completely reattached. There is definite sloshing going on despite my best efforts. It no longer looks like it is entirely filled with fluid but does appear at the bottom - gel-like. Hoping that is just an optical illusion as described above? If the membrane isn't taunt, how do they pip internally?

blood supply is a bit spread out but honestly isn't ideal. I confirmed last night that they are still alive (day 14) which surprised me. I was sure at least one of the 3 would be a quitter by now. At this point I guess there is nothing to be done but leave them upright and hope for the best. At least the other set look really good so babies should be here one way or another.

if my son shows up in the evening with his fancy sandy phone, I will try to get a good pic or video.

 

[WVduckchick]

Any update?

 

[fatcatx]

Update: Lock down was last night. I could not confirm movement in any of the 3. Cell edge on all of them was very goofy looking - not just a saddle but with other crazy dips in them. Clearly my reserved tipping did not do its job. Two looked very poor. Not sure how to describe them other than it looked like the membrane may have collapsed/completely detached as it dehydrated. Too little of the egg appeared filled with the chick. It was startling how much had changed in just 4 days. Even in the remote chance they are still alive, I do not think they could successfully hatch. But never say never? I set them with the others and will reassess at the end of the hatch.

I will post pictures if I can get any useful ones. The good news is most of the other ones looked very promising and in good shape so at least I should have some BF barnevelder chicks - just no BF birchen chocolate orpingtons (which of course were the ones that prompted me to set eggs in the first place.)