Alchemist Farm Unvaccinated Chicks

[JacinLarkwell]

It’s weird that they’d test for influenza and other things that kill birds but not Mareks. Should have known better with federal certification, though. I stand corrected.

Their concerns are for things that can wipe out barns of commercial birds. Meat birds don't live long enough and egg layers are typically vaccinated iirc

I don’t know if anyone can breed for resistance and I’ve read that even vaccinated chicks can get it. It’s probably a lot like any virus…if the animal (or human) is healthy and has a healthy / robust immune system, the chances of it being fatal is less. Exceptions always exist though.

Vaccinated chicks can get it if they are exposed the first 2 weeks while the vaccine is still working or if they are given the vaccine after the 24 hour window. Properly Vaccinated and quarantined chicks are safe

 

[Ponyiqandhens2]

Yes, I don’t believe they have Marek’s at the hatchery. I am just wondering how one could breed for resistance to a disease their birds are not exposed to. Not saying it’s not possible, I just don’t know. And granted, one of my newest pullets from Alchemist and two from last year seem absolutely fine (the skinny, very molting one has recovered). Glad to hear yours are doing well!

Some breeds are inherently resistant.Egyptian aFayoumis are resistant to most strains of Mareks as well as several other diseases ( it is why they were originally imported to a university in the 30s and 50s
There are several studies showing their natural resistance,actually several Egyptian varieties..which means at some point it was a major issue and developed resistance.. at least a century or more ago

 

[Ponyiqandhens2]

It’s weird that they’d test for influenza and other things that kill birds but not Mareks. Should have known better with federal certification, though. I stand corrected.

When NPIP was developed Mareks was common, but very,very mild did not kill or cripple birds. But it did cause problems in UK and US production farms that were growing in the 50s and 60s because production decreased when birds got it but eventually recovered

A vaccine was developed in 1970, but it was a leaky vaccine..so a once nonfatal disease has become virulent and deadly. https://www.healthline.com/health-n...072715#Preventing-More-Virulent-Virus-Strains

 

[Ridgerunner]

It’s weird that they’d test for influenza and other things that kill birds but not Mareks. Should have known better with federal certification, though. I stand corrected.

NPIP is a national program set up a long time ago to combat Pullorum, which used to be a big problem. Now Pullorum is really rare. NPIP is a voluntary program which I believe 48 of the 50 states take part in.

Each state can add different things this program and many do. Some do not. What you are talking about is not a federal issue, but an individual state issue. Each state individually decides what they will test for, if anything, though all that participate and get federal money must test for Pullorum.

NPIP is often misunderstood on this forum since it depends on which state you are talking about. It can be confusing.

 

[Ridgerunner]

A vaccine was developed in 1970, but it was a leaky vaccine..so a once nonfatal disease has become virulent and deadly. https://www.healthline.com/health-n...072715#Preventing-More-Virulent-Virus-Strains

The Marek's vaccine does not prevent Marek's. The vaccine prevents the formation of the tumors that cause the damage. The vaccinated chicken can still catch Marek's and be a carrier and spread Marek's. The vaccine does not cause Marek's, it just stops the symptoms from harming the bird.

Some chickens have a natural resistance to Marek's. When Marek's is introduced to a flock it might kill or cripple a few or a lot but it seldom wipes out the entire flock. Of course it can vary by flock but typically about half the chickens in an unvaccinated flock that is infected by Marek's will not show symptoms. They are infected and can spread it but it won't kill or cripple them. It would be nice if there were a vaccine that stopped the chicken from getting Marek's if it is exposed but there isn't. The one we use combats the symptoms and allows egg farmers to have their massive egg laying flocks.

Marek's has always been deadly. There are and have been flocks that do not have Marek's in them but some do. This was true in the 1950's when I was a kid, it is still true today. Developing the vaccine did not change that.

 

[Chickhobbiest]

I wonder what others experience has been with Alchemist Farms unvaccinated (for Mareks) chicks. I bought 4 Bielefelders feom them last year and 2 Azure Eggers this year. I just buried one of my Azure eggers (of course she was a favorite). I discovered that I have Marek’s in my flock… She had the classic signs of leg paralysis and gasping. I babied her but she still died within about ten days… Her vaccinated brooder mates and the other Azure Egger are fine. Both Azure Eggers came down with what I then thought was a vitamin deficiency when they were just a few weeks old. I now wonder if it was Pseudo Botulism, which is a form of Marek’s. Signs were head dangling in the bedding progressing to them getting so weak they were completely flat lying down, only eyes moving. One chick completely recovered with babying within 24hrs, the other took 2 days. The one who took longer is the one who just died. Hmmm. When I look at the Bielefelders, a year old now, one has a roach back (developed at about eight weeks old), otherwise fine, one developed ascites a couple of months ago, one went into a sudden early heavy molt and is now regrowing feathers but skinny and pale, one seems completely fine. One of them (don’t know which, probably ascites girl) is laying a flat, thin shelled egg. So three hens with issues out of four. Marek’s makes chickens more susceptible to other illnesses, because it compromises the immune system, so that could be in play here. My older vaccinated big hatchery birds are all fine, so are my pullets and cockerel from Greenfire (also vaccinated). As much as I love Alchemist Farm, and especially because they are local and we don’t have to have the chicks shipped, I don’t think I dare buy unvaccinated chicks anymore. It is just not fair to the birds and it’s too rough on me, too. Have you guys had better luck?

Two years ago Mareks ravaged my flock, the new birds. And, I had ordered chicks from alchemist that year, as well as another California breeder. All unvaccinated. So, I don’t know where I brought it in from, but I lost all but 2 of the alchemist birds and all of the other brood. I know the vaccine can be controversial in the chicken world, but I don’t dare bring in unvaccinated birds anymore because it was so devastating. I haven’t had a problem since. I did send off for necropsy and it was suspected mareks. In my mind, I didn’t really suspect alchemist because they don’t offer the vaccine…. I assumed they hadn’t had issues themselves. It’s hard to know

 

[Kiki]

Also, I think they’re certified…don’t think a farm can have mareks and keep the NPIP or whatever it is….

Unfortunately this is not true.
One can have Marek's disease in their flock and be NPIP and sell sick birds.

 

[Chickhobbiest]

Also, I think they’re certified…don’t think a farm can have mareks and keep the NPIP or whatever it is….

Mareks is not part of the NPIP screening. Apparently it is so prevalent they don’t test for it.

 

[Kiki]

I wonder what others experience has been with Alchemist Farms unvaccinated (for Mareks) chicks. I bought 4 Bielefelders feom them last year and 2 Azure Eggers this year. I just buried one of my Azure eggers (of course she was a favorite). I discovered that I have Marek’s in my flock… She had the classic signs of leg paralysis and gasping. I babied her but she still died within about ten days… Her vaccinated brooder mates and the other Azure Egger are fine. Both Azure Eggers came down with what I then thought was a vitamin deficiency when they were just a few weeks old. I now wonder if it was Pseudo Botulism, which is a form of Marek’s. Signs were head dangling in the bedding progressing to them getting so weak they were completely flat lying down, only eyes moving. One chick completely recovered with babying within 24hrs, the other took 2 days. The one who took longer is the one who just died. Hmmm. When I look at the Bielefelders, a year old now, one has a roach back (developed at about eight weeks old), otherwise fine, one developed ascites a couple of months ago, one went into a sudden early heavy molt and is now regrowing feathers but skinny and pale, one seems completely fine. One of them (don’t know which, probably ascites girl) is laying a flat, thin shelled egg. So three hens with issues out of four. Marek’s makes chickens more susceptible to other illnesses, because it compromises the immune system, so that could be in play here. My older vaccinated big hatchery birds are all fine, so are my pullets and cockerel from Greenfire (also vaccinated). As much as I love Alchemist Farm, and especially because they are local and we don’t have to have the chicks shipped, I don’t think I dare buy unvaccinated chicks anymore. It is just not fair to the birds and it’s too rough on me, too. Have you guys had better luck?

Have you seen this?
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/recent-alchemist-farms-experience.1563846/post-26540319

 

[Disheygirl]

NPIP is a national program set up a long time ago to combat Pullorum, which used to be a big problem. Now Pullorum is really rare. NPIP is a voluntary program which I believe 48 of the 50 states take part in.

Each state can add different things this program and many do. Some do not. What you are talking about is not a federal issue, but an individual state issue. Each state individually decides what they will test for, if anything, though all that participate and get federal money must test for Pullorum.

NPIP is often misunderstood on this forum since it depends on which state you are talking about. It can be confusing.

It is, but I appreciate the correction. They made such a deal about avian flu, but don’t test for Mareks…either could wipe out a significant part of flocks. The way they handled the flu, one bird tested positive and they killed them all. Just seems odd…