Ali James' Garden Chickens

[BY Bob]

Good evening (morning/afternoon) everyone, hope you have had/are having a good day.

I finally managed to get some actual work done today. F goes back to school on Thursday and as much as the summer holidays have been wonderful, I just want to get back to normal!!

I had fun with the girls today; they have shown very little interest in my apple offerings so I brought out the big guns ... meal worms! In the lead up to the girls arriving, I bought a few boxes of meal worms and have set up a little colony. They are all growing nicely and I have quite a few Darkling beetles now who will start producing the next generation.

At first they didn't seem bothered, but when Charlie got a taste the rest of them realised there was something good going down! Everyone took mealworms from my hand and there was some frantic rushing about! @BY Bob I was immediately reminded of your Mellie when I was watching Charlie; despite being the bottom of the pecking order, she went in at the speed of lightening to grab the worms from the bigger girls. They won't get them very often, but they will definitely enjoy them!

I also got some beautiful squats/bows from Delta and Blue today. Maybe they think I'm their rooster!!

The hens at the bottom need special skills to get those treats from the big girls. Speed and daring are great assets to have. So much fun

 

[BY Bob]

I have read that it is fine to give apple in small amounts and as part of the treat amount. Like @Ribh said, what I read said that the amount is so negligible that it isn't something to worry about.
@ValerieJ your chickens must have lead-lined stomachs!!

@Ribh is right. Small amounts of cyanide are released when apple seeds are digested. @ValerieJ Has already given anecdotal evidence that chickens are safe. I wonder what the math says.

Small amounts of cyanide, ranging from 0.2-1.6 mg for every pound of body weight, cause acute poisoning and may even be deadly to humans.

If we're take a hen like my Hattie who weighs 7 lbs, how many apple seeds could she eat before toxic levels might be reached?

Using the low end as a worst case, 1.4 mg could in theory start causing issues for her. (7.0×0.2=1.4) How many apple seeds is that? Could she ever ingest that many?

One gram of finely crushed or chewed apple seeds may deliver up to 0.06-0.24 mg of cyanide. So looking at Hattie at 7lbs we're are talking about 2.3 grams of apple seeds to get get over the minimum dose to start being toxic. (1.4/0.06=23.33)

Each apple seed weighs a minimum of 1.4 grams on average. So by human toxicity standards, it would take 17 apple seeds to do Hattie in. Providing that my math is correct.

Are there different toxicity standards for chickens? Yes.

Studies have shown that at 21mg/kg 50% of affected chickens will perish. Converting Hattie's 7lbs to kg give us 3.17 kg x 21 mg = 66.57 mg for a lethal dose. With each seed providing 0.06-0.24 mg of cyanide. To reach chicken toxicity levels it would take 66.57 (lethal dose) / 0.06 mg per seed = 1,109 seeds to have a 50% chance of Hattie's death.

Conclusion
I don't think it is realistically possible for chickens to perish by eating apple seeds. It would take likely more seeds than they realistically can ingest. Hattie eats a lot but over 1,000 seeds seems like more than she could realistically eat, let along choose to eat.

 

[MROO]

Good morning everyone!

I am Ali, I'm 30-something and I live in the south east of the UK with my wonderful husband and our six year old son. We in turn are owned by two cats.

As I write this I can still say that I have never kept chickens before. That is about to change as in less than two days we will be collecting four hybrid hens from a local, independent farm shop. We are so excited!

Our son ('F'), like virtually all children, has been making noises about wanting a pet. We do not have the space inside our home for a cage or tank to go, our two cats (which don't seem to count as pets for some reason ) are very proficient hunters so having something small and furry was never going to happen. We do have garden space so an outside pet was more plausible. And a useful pet, even more so. F's school have chickens and he loves them and so we thought, why not?

For weeks and weeks and have been reading and researching, hours and hours have been sucked into youtube and BYC! I finally feel ready. But, there will be so much I do not know, and inevitably situations will crop up that I couldn't really prepare for. So I would love it if you would join me on my thread to help me out with your experience and knowledge!

P.S. I love photos and videos; be warned, there will be lots of each!

Welcome Ali! We're glad you've joined us! You've come to the right place to get guidance and tons of information. And, just so you know, you can't possibly over-run us with pictures ... because we LOVE pictures! It's great to have you, your family (including your furbabies) and your future chickabiddies here with us.

 

[Ali James]

@Ribh is right. Small amounts of cyanide are released when apple seeds are digested. @ValerieJ Has already given anecdotal evidence that chickens are safe. I wonder what the math says.

Small amounts of cyanide, ranging from 0.2-1.6 mg for every pound of body weight, cause acute poisoning and may even be deadly to humans.

If we're take a green like my Hattie who weighs 7 lbs, how many apple seeds could she eat before toxic levels might be reached?

View attachment 1897998
Using the low end as a worst case, 1.4 mg could in theory start causing issues for her. (7.0×0.2=1.4) How many apple seeds is that? Could she ever ingest that many?

One gram of finely crushed or chewed apple seeds may deliver up to 0.06-0.24 mg of cyanide. So looking at Hattie at 7lbs we're are talking about 2.3 grams of apple seeds to get get over the minimum dose to start being toxic. (1.4/0.06=23.33)

Each apple seed weighs a minimum of 1.4 grams on average. So by human toxicity standards, it would take 17 apple seeds to do Hattie in. Providing that my math is correct.

Are there different toxicity standards for chickens? Yes.

Studies have shown that at 21mg/kg 50% of affected chickens will perish. Converting Hattie's 7lbs to kg give us 3.17 kg x 21 mg = 66.57 mg for a lethal dose. With each seed providing 0.06-0.24 mg of cyanide. To reach chicken toxicity levels it would take 66.57 (lethal dose) / 0.06 mg per seed = 1,109 seeds to have a 50% chance of Hattie's death.

Conclusion
I don't think it is realistically possible for chickens to perish by eating apple seeds. It would take likely more seeds than they realistically can ingest. Hattie eats a lot but over 1,000 seeds seems like more than she could realistically eat, let along choose to eat.

This is great Bob, really informative. Although I did wince when reading about bringing about Hattie's demise. She is my favourite of your birds!

 

[ValerieJ]

@Ribh is right. Small amounts of cyanide are released when apple seeds are digested. @ValerieJ Has already given anecdotal evidence that chickens are safe. I wonder what the math says.

Small amounts of cyanide, ranging from 0.2-1.6 mg for every pound of body weight, cause acute poisoning and may even be deadly to humans.

If we're take a green like my Hattie who weighs 7 lbs, how many apple seeds could she eat before toxic levels might be reached?

View attachment 1897998
Using the low end as a worst case, 1.4 mg could in theory start causing issues for her. (7.0×0.2=1.4) How many apple seeds is that? Could she ever ingest that many?

One gram of finely crushed or chewed apple seeds may deliver up to 0.06-0.24 mg of cyanide. So looking at Hattie at 7lbs we're are talking about 2.3 grams of apple seeds to get get over the minimum dose to start being toxic. (1.4/0.06=23.33)

Each apple seed weighs a minimum of 1.4 grams on average. So by human toxicity standards, it would take 17 apple seeds to do Hattie in. Providing that my math is correct.

Are there different toxicity standards for chickens? Yes.

Studies have shown that at 21mg/kg 50% of affected chickens will perish. Converting Hattie's 7lbs to kg give us 3.17 kg x 21 mg = 66.57 mg for a lethal dose. With each seed providing 0.06-0.24 mg of cyanide. To reach chicken toxicity levels it would take 66.57 (lethal dose) / 0.06 mg per seed = 1,109 seeds to have a 50% chance of Hattie's death.

Conclusion
I don't think it is realistically possible for chickens to perish by eating apple seeds. It would take likely more seeds than they realistically can ingest. Hattie eats a lot but over 1,000 seeds seems like more than she could realistically eat, let along choose to eat.

That was quite a study and conclusion. I loved it!!! I would add, however, to my declaration that my chickens consume all the apples they want during the late summer as they fall off the tree, that they rarely make it to the seeds of any of them, as there is an abundance of sweet apple flesh to consume. Or maybe they just know better than to eat the seeds.

 

[drumstick diva]

I think I have read peach pits contain cyanide.

 

[Aussie-Chookmum]

Yay @Ali James ! You have a profile pic now! I like that one, the infamous watch picture

 

[Ali James]

Yay @Ali James ! You have a profile pic now! I like that one, the infamous watch picture

I submitted it into the photo for a caption contest thread too!

 

[Ali James]

We had the egg-laying song belted out loud and clear this morning. Echo might be a bit of an applause junkie...

 

[BY Bob]

That was quite a study and conclusion. I loved it!!! I would add, however, to my declaration that my chickens consume all the apples they want during the late summer as they fall off the tree, that they rarely make it to the seeds of any of them, as there is an abundance of sweet apple flesh to consume. Or maybe they just know better than to eat the seeds.

Maybe the seeds don't taste goodas well? I've never seen mine eat the seeds.