Alternatives to Bullets

[LeafBlade12345]

Sorry if I got a little heated...just a little overprotective of wildlife.

 

[MeepBeep]

There will always be those that refuse to kill predators, and those that will kill them, it's a no win argument...

For me if any predator decides to hunt my livestock they will in turn become the hunted... The predator that keeps their distance keeps their life... It's a natural course of nature...

 

[LeafBlade12345]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I totally understand that some people don't mind killing predators. I don't say that it is cruel or anything. Just saying I wouldn't do it.

 

[Catnip5]

The video is informative. It can provide insight into how you might be able to protect your chickens by taking into account the behavior of the chickens and fox as well as how the coop interacts with those behaviors.

I disagree, the video is useless is terms of informing anyone on how exactly the coop was breached. Had we seen the method of entry it might have some redeeming value. Otherwise it does not. The behaviors of both the fox and the chickens in this situation are pretty well understood and the video adds nothing to that bank of knowledge, for me anyway. How to prevent a breach in that case would have been helpful.

 

[centrarchid]

I disagree, the video is useless is terms of informing anyone on how exactly the coop was breached. Had we seen the method of entry it might have some redeeming value. Otherwise it does not. The behaviors of both the fox and the chickens in this situation are pretty well understood and the video adds nothing to that bank of knowledge, for me anyway. How to prevent a breach in that case would have been helpful.

There is a great deal more than simply breaching. The hens could have increased odds of escape by getting up on an elevated roost or even cramming themselves into cavities from which the fox could not retrieve them from. Where could the hens go in that little henhouse?


Anything that slows the fox's progress increases odds at least some of the birds will survive. Your are getting electrifies poultry netting. I use it for multiple paddocks and deal with people that use it as well. It does not work for all predators so you will need to think about additional methods to fill "gaps". Filling in the gaps is not always about throwing money into one super system of poultry protection. You will find other options, many less costly that will aid in protecting your birds.

You will need to bring in more dimensions to your thinking to protect your birds as a single system of defense is seldom foolproof. Think in layers of protection. You saw what my place looks like in part. It is actually a lot more open to predator movements than your yard yet I am able to keep predators from getting into my birds. Hidden into the lay of the land I have many resources that obstruct predators and allow birds to avoid capture at least long enough for other protective measures to come into play.

 

[Catnip5]

There is a great deal more than simply breaching. The hens could have increased odds of escape by getting up on an elevated roost or even cramming themselves into cavities from which the fox could not retrieve them from. Where could the hens go in that little henhouse?


Anything that slows the fox's progress increases odds at least some of the birds will survive. Your are getting electrifies poultry netting. I use it for multiple paddocks and deal with people that use it as well. It does not work for all predators so you will need to think about additional methods to fill "gaps". Filling in the gaps is not always about throwing money into one super system of poultry protection. You will find other options, many less costly that will aid in protecting your birds.

You will need to bring in more dimensions to your thinking to protect your birds as a single system of defense is seldom foolproof. Think in layers of protection. You saw what my place looks like in part. It is actually a lot more open to predator movements than your yard yet I am able to keep predators from getting into my birds. Hidden into the lay of the land I have many resources that obstruct predators and allow birds to avoid capture at least long enough for other protective measures to come into play.

Yes those are all good points but to me common sense. The coop, given it's design, needed to focus on eliminating the possibility of a breach. If in doubt, yes - provide access / options for the birds that might foil the ability of a fox to reach them. I did not find it valuable in providing solutions myself and thus the content was primarily disturbing, not helpful. The hens were slaughtered but no solutions or follow-up to address the innate problems with design were addressed.
Layers of protection is a great way to describe the approach I am taking. The coop(s) have always been secure and will continue to be provided I monitor them. The land has loads of protective landscaping - but clearly not adequate for free-ranging against a predator fox. The fencing around the property should alleviate or eliminate that risk, hopefully.

Please do share your "many resources that obstruct predators and allow the birds to avoid capture" - I expect everyone can benefit from those protective measures. I'm definitely open to suggestions and ideas with regard to protective layers! However, but video, such as it is, does nothing constructive for me.

 

[centrarchid]

Common sense is far from commonly available. Most is developed more through experience which will apply to you as you work out how your available resources provide benefits.

For starters I have more than one perimeter. Most outer is simply an abrupt break in the vegetation where I have very short cut grass forming a lane. The breaks slow most predators down as they are also vulnerable in transition zones. With in the outer transition zone I have three strands of hot-wire placed for entertainment of fox, coyotes and bobcat. Within that I have dense cover patches that hens can cover chicks at night and where flocks can loaf to avoid detection and elements. The cover patches help keep birds within protected perimeters. For juvenile birds I have paddocks of poultry netting and not just one. More than one makes so not all eggs in one basket. I have roosters in key locations, sometimes free-range, that protect chicks and small juveniles from hawks that target smaller chickens. Roosters stop loss hawks very well if you provide proper cover. Roost are elevated where practical. More than one pen with birds dispersed between pens. With pens, especially during winter, I have a single strand of hot-wire 6" off ground and 6" away from pens that entertain critters challenging pen walls. I have dogs (very expensive part of approach) allowing defense of several acres and even omission of other protective measures around house serving as core for dog activities. Chicken breed selecting also important for me but not applicable for those into production and most ornamental breed.

I spend considerable effort trying reduce attractants for predators that also eat chicken feed or rodents eating chicken feed.

Cover patches also.

I do employ live traps and occasionally bullets (genuine common sense applications) but much less than you might suspect.

 

[123RedBeard]

While the first video, shows the fox learning about electric shock therapy ... the owners should have made a second fence surrounding both the chicken tractors, they already had a charger ... that would be another layer of protection ...

The second video, seems to not to have any electric protection, just a camera to record the carnage ... even a couple of runs of "hot wire" around the existing fence would have prevented the fox from getting in, even though it climbed a tree/bush, it would have met the top rung of the electric, bird netting obviously does not stop or support the weight of a fox! The one chicken it did get. seems to have been left out at night ... coop up the chicken, it has a better chance to see morning.

The third shows that "poultry netting" does not stop a fox (or most ANYTHING) from getting in, just contains the chickens ... the problem with the tiny coops are they have no where to get away from the fox! A 6' high roost would have probably saved them, even after being attacked a few times the chickens still had enough life left to get away!

What people need to think about is an onion, layers of protection, if you run a electric fence, make sure your "FT KNOX" type coop is TOTALLY inside of this, not just at the edge abutting up to the fence, that is why a good gate is essential! Since you have the charger anyways get some insulators (or make them out of a piece of pipe ...) and bare wire, put that directly on the coop, around doors and windows/vents ... I have also used plastic pipe (can't find a picture of it now) that I cut half away of the diameter of the pipe, about 3/4" on each end of a 3" piece of pipe, then fed my wire through it, and then screwed the pipe to trees or posts/building ...

Adding electric to existing fence ... Of course ... having another set of eyes and ears around that wont eat your chickens is also handy ... not my dog ... but I like it! Having a baby monitor in the coop, can also alert you if you hear a ruckus, and then you can deal with the problem ...
OK, I found my old pictures from my house in VT 10 years ago ... here you can see that I'm using webwire, for my fencing, it has three little strands of wire weaved into the webbing, horse and deer can see it better! The post on the left, has the two bottom strands held on with the yellow pipe insulators that I made myself ... actually is old propane underground gas line, but any plastic pipe will do! the top two are the factory insulators ... Sorry I don't have a more close up picture of it ... We moved to AZ 8 years ago!

 

[LeafBlade12345]

The first two videos were quite informative, the last was disturbing and unnecessary. There was no follow up on how they could have kept the fox from the chickens. As for electric fencing, after a couple of shocks, most animals will keep away. Our friends had electric fencing surrounding a garden and chicken coop, and one of their dogs did the exact same thing every day. He would back up as far as he could, then rush into the fence, snapping at it and thrashing around even when he got shocked. He had absolutely no interest in the chickens or crops, he just wanted to fight the fence! It was sad but funny how persistent he was! Btw they took the fence down after the dog almost killed himself by getting tangled in it.

 

[slingshotandLAR]

The first two videos were quite informative, the last was disturbing and unnecessary. There was no follow up on how they could have kept the fox from the chickens. As for electric fencing, after a couple of shocks, most animals will keep away. Our friends had electric fencing surrounding a garden and chicken coop, and one of their dogs did the exact same thing every day. He would back up as far as he could, then rush into the fence, snapping at it and thrashing around even when he got shocked. He had absolutely no interest in the chickens or crops, he just wanted to fight the fence! It was sad but funny how persistent he was! Btw they took the fence down after the dog almost killed himself by getting tangled in it.

Disturbing maybe, but it provides some good insight....

It's a perspective rarely seen, and shows how everything reacts during an attack. If you have an attack all you see is the aftermath, almost never the how.

Some good advise has come out of that video being posted in this thread, so I wouldn't say it's unnecessary. In order to be prepared sometimes it's informative to see what happens if your not.