Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[pips&peeps]

The minute you cross birds from Smith lines, that is when they are yours. You are picking which individuals to breed.

When you get eggs/chicks from a breeder they are not all necessarily birds that the breeder would choose to continue their line, if any. You are getting a mere handful of birds they choose from each year to continue with. I raise hundreds of chicks every year and I would say most them are sold as layers and meat.

I know John takes all his culls to an auction and I have seen many a person just happier than a lark that they have his lines, well they have his culls.........

If someone buys a chick and raises it, or a started bird, I can see giving credit at a show. A bird raised into a show bird and does well is credit to the owner also. It takes alot to grow a bird out properly an manage it for showing.

I think the proper way if asked who's lines you have would be to say I started with so and so's lines and I have been breeding them for XX years.

Hopefully, if we don't all agree on this subject we can respectfully disagree and not get into big tizzies like I saw on another thread.

XXX OOO

 

[Christie Rhae]

I think the proper way if asked who's lines you have would be to say I started with so and so's lines and I have been breeding them for XX years.

I think this is a reasonable compromise.
Ok I approve... subject closed

Oh I do crack myself up... lol

 

[FLF]

And on a whole different subject... TSC sucked me in. I had a moment of weakness and came home with 6 new Easter Eggers. I feel like such a traitor to my Ameraucanas...

This made me giggle. I have to admit, I am itching a bit for some EE's just for the random colors. I'm trying to stay strong and tell my elf I have too many projects as is, and I could make my own.... but... I do have to go to TSC today

 

[Tailfeathers]

Tailfeathers, I just used the white egg thing as an example. So please don't get your tailfeathers ruffled. This is not meant to talk any crap about you or your birds. I understand why you did it, and I would do it to. I read so many pages of content it was the first thing that came to my mind to use for an example.

On another note, the judge is looking at two equally nice hens, and one drops a blue egg, and the other drops a white one, who do you think would win? Regardless of age, stress level, weather, or any other extrinsic or intrinsic factors that my effect egg color.................................

As for comparing it to the black chicken with a white feather being cut out, people do that kind of crap........................and it makes me mad!

I will say sorry for saying that the hen should be dq'ed, that was a strong statement.

I also want to say that I have been raising Ameraucanas for a while now, and I have a few of my own generations. I just recently joined BYC, and the ABC. I found your post to be a bit mean instead of informative.

Just for the record, I know my comments came across strong as that was my intent but I did not intend to come across as mean, nasty or anything like that. I only wish to emphasize that the APA SOP does NOT allow for the judging of a bird based on ANYTHING from the egg. It's just flat not in the book and that's all there is to it. So no bird should be DQ'd based on an egg. And to compare taking such a bird to a show with the snipping of a feather which is called FAKING is not accurate. "Faking" is specifically defined in the SOP and anyone who has been to a show knows that a bird is liable to lay an egg in the showcage during the show. Opinions are fine (though care should be taken so as to not come across as accusatory) but when we step into the realm of what a bird will or will not be judged on, then we have an authoritative source that we must go by.

So, given the question above as to which bird the judge would pick to win, it would be my hope that the judge would go back to the respective scoring sheets and pick accordingly. Should there be a tie, which is highly doubtful given the specificity from which they must be judged, then a review of each bird would have to be done again to see if a deduction could be found that was missed. If none could be found, then a tie should be awarded if allowed by the APA which I'd have to go back and look to see.

I try to say what I mean and mean what I say. I hope I've done a better job here.

God Bless,

 

[Tailfeathers]

When I buy any chickens, chicks, or hatching eggs, I hope everybody is trying to do what I am doing, trying to breed to the SOP.

I don't believe in a closed flock. You have to introduce new blood. There are so many things that are effected if you don't.

I don't want you to think I'm picking on you but I must respectively disagree with the latter statement. You do not have to introduce new blood and, in fact, just the opposite occurs when you do. Because every time you bring "new blood" into your flock, you are bringing in a host of unknowns. There's just no way of getting around that. I don't have the time to go into it all here but I've commented extensively on this in many other threads. I would recommend reading Kenny Troiano's books or the articles in the Poultry Press. He's bred a closed flock for more than 25 years and not only has never brought in any new blood but supposedly has one of the most photographed and well-known chickens of all time.

As for the first statement, I would hope so too. BUT, one must realize that the SOP allows for some variance and personal preference. Besides that, there is only so much a breeder can work on at any one time. I agree with those who think it is best to concentrate and focus on one or two at the most traits at any one time. Those traits may be entirely different thant he ones you choose to focus on. Therefore, bringing in new blood can actually set your breeding program back several years.

God Bless,

 

[Tailfeathers]

Tail feathers.. Yes I agree somewhat with your perspective but pedigree and strain are essentially the same thing in chicken breeding world. Chickens have no pedigree therefore strain and pedigree is one and the same.

I do understand where you are coming from in regards to what traits have been bred for in someone's lines, but I would rather use birds from tthe same strain as my birds over birds from a totally new (unknown) gene pool. You say it's best to maintain a closed flock, why is using the same strain from a different farm any different than using your own closed flock? It's essentially the same thing, other than being several generations removed, is it not?

And I say there are many different ways to "skin a cat" so to speak so who cares how someone gets there. It may take "the flock breeder" longer to get that perfect chicken but if it doesn't bother them why should they be seen as any less of a breeder? I don't get why the need for that long dissertation.

HP, hopefully I just made myself a little clearer in the above replies. But I will take one more shot at your question as to why using the same strain from a different farm different than using your own closed flock. The reason is really quite simple, because you simply do not know how the other person is breeding but when you outcross to a different line within a closed flock, you KNOW exactly what you're getting. Ergo, you ELIMINATE the UNKNOWN factors. One of, if not the biggest impediments to a breeder is dealing with the unknowns. Anytime that can be reduced, you are far better off. And that is why it is not essentially the same thing.

Yes, there are several ways to "skin a cat". All may get you to the same place. Though most who've skinned a cat would tell you that it works best and faster if you pull from the gills to the tail. Kenny Troiano wrote extensively, as I previously said, on the PRO'S and the CON'S of each breeding program. He lined them out in great detail and the fact is the "flock breeder" is the LEAST effective method out there. That is NOT to say that it makes anyone any less of a breeder if they flock breed. It is ONLY to say it is less effective and efficient.

As for my "long dissertation", I can always try to be less helpful in the future.

God Bless,

 

[flower]

Waaaay back, over a year ago, I posted a picture of two birds that I hatched from blue eggs. I ordered a dozen eggs from a BYC auction advertising BBS bantam Ameraucana. The breeder is a very nice person with a good reputation and keeps a closed flock. I notified her when I hatched out a pair of lovely porcelain and lavender OEGB chicks. I gave the chicks to a friend who loves them and has hatched their eggs and has more lavender OEGBs. So what happened here ? The breeder was not able to give an answer either. The eggs were all blue and I do have one black am bantam from that hatch. ?????

 

[ChickenLeg]

(sorry flower to bypass your question, but its because I have little knowledge on anything chicken wise, at this age in time

)

But I just wanted everyone to know how entertaining it was to read the past few pages of comments!

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

Waaaay back, over a year ago, I posted a picture of two birds that I hatched from blue eggs. I ordered a dozen eggs from a BYC auction advertising BBS bantam Ameraucana. The breeder is a very nice person with a good reputation and keeps a closed flock. I notified her when I hatched out a pair of lovely porcelain and lavender OEGB chicks. I gave the chicks to a friend who loves them and has hatched their eggs and has more lavender OEGBs. So what happened here ? The breeder was not able to give an answer either. The eggs were all blue and I do have one black am bantam from that hatch. ?????

You may not get a lot of responses since it is an active BYC member, but I'm sure we all have opinions...

 

[flower]

Actually this is a rhetorical question and I do not expect answers but wanted to comment that you "jest never know" no matter what and how hard you work. Some things have no answers and are just strange. Look at your last hatch, really.................... all those beautiful chicks and only one female yikes ! I just read posts to learn and my goal is just to have a nice flock.

You may not get a lot of responses since it is an active BYC member, but I'm sure we all have opinions...