Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[Thespoiledchicken]

Hi guys

I have not posted here often because I can't seem to keep up with this thread, lol. Anyways, just wanted to know what position the club was taking on the Silkied feather Ameraucanas. I am a member of the ABC but have not really heard any talk about them.

I know that they are not considered "real" Ameraucanas at this point but was wondering what the general feeling is about them and if that is ever a possibility?

I ask because I have been working with them and have had great results so far

my current group for Spring breeding is smooth feather black split to Lav so hopefully hatching Silkied Lavs real soon

Mine have been bred to really good quality Ameraucanas from several lines including Shaffer and Blehm and so far all are hatching with correct leg color, nice tight combs, muffs etc..

Am I correct to be calling them "project" Silkied feather Ameraucanas or should I be calling them something else?

And will I have the wrath of Ameraucana breeders hunting me down to burn at the stake after I release them in Lavender

 

[Outrun Acres]

Every species sets its own rules and guidelines and within the species, the breeds can also make their own rules. Thoroughbreds have very stringent rules about what should and shouldn't be called a Thoroughbred. They don't allow AI so any foal produced that way can't be registered even if both parents are fully registered Thoroughbreds. Dutch Warmblood stallion owners have to pay big fees in advance and name their off-spring following pre-set rules if they want to be included in the breed book. Folks working with the "purebreds" don't appreciate the mutts (those that don't follow the breed rules) being referred to as the real deal regardless of who their parents are and they'll make that well known to you if you give them a chance. And within the poultry/chicken species, some breeds have stronger rules for inclusion than others. For example, "if it doesn't lay a 4 or above dark egg on the shade card, it isn't a Marans." Doesn't matter who the parents are. For Ameraucanas, they have rules about plummage colour and leg colour. Breed status is not necessarily a birth-right.

First of all, using the Thoroughbred breed to pose a comparative counter-position does not make any sense at all. They created the A.I. rule specifically for the racing industry, mostly to try to maintain genetic diversity within the breed (or so they claim). The best way to ruin a breed within a species is to breed for one trait. In the case of the thoroughbred, a breed has been been bred to death for decades to try to accentuate one trait, speed. If everyone bred their mares to the same Kentucky Derby winner it would overall be counterproductive to the future of the breed. It also has to do with corruption within the racing industry and they figure that a way to eliminate some of that is to deny registration to any foals that weren't conceived by live cover. It's harder to prove parentage of foals conceived through A.I. So while that may be an inconvenient rule, given the history of the breed and the racing industry, it actually makes good scientific sense. I agree with you about the Dutch Warmbloods. To me that is just a way of try to put the breed on an elitist peda-stool, so to speak and that argument is comparative to this one. Whether I am wrong or right, I personally just cannot make sense of this Ameraucana "breed status."

 

[Outrun Acres]

I was not going to indulge in this EE vs Ameraucana conversation... Because it really is like beating your head off of a brick wall. It gives you a headache and no matter how much you hit the wall, the brick can not be gotten through to. Just like the brick heads of the EE / Pure but not APA/SOP approved Ameraucana breeders (that are not project colors). Sorry, but if it isn't APA/ABA SOP then it's not an 'Ameraucana'. If it breeds true but is not on the varieties list, it's a mutt. If it is a project, then it's s project (Lavenders, Chocolates, Mottled, Splash) but it breeds true and people are trying to get the variety approved. You will never get a wild colored Wheaten x Silver approved! It will never breed true! BBS does breed true to an extent. You know you will get either BB or S!

Is there anything wrong with questioning the SOP? It seems to me like this issue is very divided. To have such a large group of people on each side of the issue makes me think that maybe there is room for change. I'm not trying to start a fight or offend anyone. I'm just trying to understand it. There doesn't seem to be the same controversy over the standard of perfection associated with a lot of other poultry breeds. If another breed doesn't conform to it's standard it is still that breed, just a poor quality example of it.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

At the end of the day, you are free to call your birds whatever you want. But if you show up at at Ameraucana Club meet (like this thread) and expect validation, you might want to make sure you are playing by their rules.

 

[unkadan]

Well said Barb,,,,

 

[kian]

At the end of the day, you are free to call your birds whatever you want. But if you show up at at Ameraucana Club meet (like this thread) and expect validation, you might want to make sure you are playing by their rules.

That's why I ask questions. I want to know what I have and I don't want to sound ignorant! I understand now that I have EEs and *why* they are EEs.

 

[pips&peeps]

That's why I ask questions. I want to know what I have and I don't want to sound ignorant! I understand now that I have EEs and *why* they are EEs.

I'm glad you get it. I posted my response twice about mixing colors and apparently some get it and some don't. I would be happy to answer any more questions you may have. I am sure others on this thread would help too.

I don't see the Ameraucana Breeders Club being divided on this issue; it really doesn't come up at our Club site.

I would like to post one more thing about mixing colors on other breeds. You would be hard pressed to find any respectable breeder crossing two different color lines of their birds and selling the offspring as non standard color "whatever". They would be culled, as in killed, sold as barnyard mixes or possibly given to another breeder to work on a project.

 

[Outrun Acres]

At the end of the day, you are free to call your birds whatever you want. But if you show up at at Ameraucana Club meet (like this thread) and expect validation, you might want to make sure you are playing by their rules.

This is just a thread about Ameraucanas, it is not specific to a particular Ameraucana Club. The title of the thread states that this is a place to post pictures and discuss the breed, so I don't know what these rules are you speak of. It seems there are other subscribers on this thread breeders and non breeders alike that share my opinions as well. There are also those on the other side of the coin that agree with yours. It just seems to me that an issue so divided is worthy of discussion. I'm simply asking "why." I don't know why you are becoming so defensive. Is it just because my opinion may differ from yours? I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning the SOP of any breed, especially a relatively new breed like the Ameraucanas . Maybe that is where all the controversy comes from? The standard of the breed doesn't have enough history yet to define itself? I think people should feel free to post questions on any thread associated with any breed of chickens. They should feel comfortable posting questions and discussing topics they don't understand and want to learn more about and not have to worry about playing by said "rules." Through our discussion I have learned a lot of valuable information about the breed and it's standard of perfection. So I guess I have found what I was looking for.

 

[kian]

Thank you Pips and Peeps! I very much appreciate your help.

I think some of this comes from people, myself included, that come into the chicken world not understanding the APA's standards at *all*, and just buying what seems like a nice bird. Then they come along showing off their prizes and end up offended when people in the know tell them they don't have what they think they have.

After reading threads on all the breeds that I have, I understand that none of my birds fit the SOP. They are not "substandard" by any means, but they are not "Standard" at all. I can accept that I actually have EEs. Its not that easy for some.

 

[Reyvaughn]

At the end of the day, you are free to call your birds whatever you want. But if you show up at at Ameraucana Club meet (like this thread) and expect validation, you might want to make sure you are playing by their rules.

I'm glad you get it.  I posted my response twice about mixing colors and apparently some get it and some don't.  I would be happy to answer any more questions you may have.  I am sure others on this thread would help too.

I don't see the Ameraucana Breeders Club being divided on this issue; it really doesn't come up at our Club site.

I would like to post one more thing about mixing colors on other breeds.  You would be hard pressed to find any respectable breeder crossing two different color lines of their birds and selling the offspring as non standard color "whatever".  They would be culled, as in killed, sold as barnyard mixes or possibly given to another breeder to work on a project.

Yes. This thread is about Ameraucanas. The breed. Meaning breed specific. Not EEs. Not what you call pure, but color crossed non-APA / non-SOP approved - well, you can but I have yet to see anyone overly helpful because their is nothing to discuss. You are not improving the breed, you are just causing more problems. We are not questioning the SOP. We are trying to get varieties / colors (that breed true) approved. I just covered this topic. I am a fresh Ameraucana breeder (less than 2yrs into this) and I understand the frustration over this topic. It's like those who want to make a quick buck over pure non-standard variety/colored Ameraucanas that really have no purpose being bred but to make money off of the eggs! You want to raise mutts, then do it but don't advertise them as show quality birds when they are not! Don't expect a real breeder to consider them as anything more than what they are, either. If you want validation, you won't get it.

I am not trying to be rude, but it is what it is.