Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[scflock]

Well said and honest.  Kern

Believe me, I am the last person in the world to be arguing with John, I am totally new at this. That's why I'm surprised to hear him promoting Cackle. Unless you are a masochist, you aren't going to knowingly buy AMs from a hatchery for the "challenge". What is going to happen is someone like me from 3 years ago is going to learn the proper way to spell Ameraucana and put it into a search engine. The results won't be John Blehm, Paul Smith, Cliff Redden or any of the other real breeders near the top. The first return is going to be Cackle hatchery, and most people will order $4 chicks from there. The market is going to be flooded with cheap, ill bred birds, and you guys are going to have the same complaints about the people that bought them showing up at shows as you do the guys with the EEs

 

[MrsBachbach]

This could be entirely possible, although I got these chicks from a reputable breeder and I have a pretty good feeling that they take the nutrition of their birds seriously. Could have been a fluke though, who knows...

I did check them all over this weekend and out of 25, three of them have crossbeak. Two of those are siblings, and there was only one other chick in the batch that was also their sibling. I won't breed that one, even if it doesn't have crossbeak now, I don't want to take the chance that it's in the genetics, especially since 2 out of 3 siblings have it. The third one that had crossbeak had no siblings in the whole batch. So, out of 25, I will only end up culling 4. And the breeders offered a refund, which is pretty awesome.

I feel a lot better now. Still sucks and we did end up culling one that was severe. Luckily I have an amazing boyfriend who will do the unpleasant stuff for me. We will let the other two grow up until it seems like there is any possibility of suffering, or they are up to eating size. One of them is actually bigger than most of the other chicks so I'm pretty sure it is not having any trouble eating at all.

Its not the overall flock I am talking about. You can give good quality feed or a mix of your own (which is what I know some do) and still have some hens with nutritional deficiencies. The reasons could be one dominant hen keeping the other from eating while she eats(she gets the goodies leaving the other leftovers) or just a hen that only picks out what she prefers and leaves the rest. I've seen it. Once you put them in breeding pens you can see their eating habits and it is no surprise when those eggs fail to hatch or the chicks hatch with toe problems, etc. So, it could explain just the siblings experiencing it, but it also could be genetic. When you aren't the breeder, it's hard to figure out. I know at one time I experienced these stargazing chicks and a couple of other symptoms and I know I changed my breeder nutrition routine and those problems did not show up in future hatches.

 

[dstokely]

And that would be me. I'm a fancier, not a breeder. That's why I would rather start with breeder quality birds. I couldn't take the time, nor do I have the experience, to breed SOP birds from hatchery stock. I stand on the shoulders of giants, but I don't claim to do any differently. I like having pretty birds, and yes, I do sell chicks from those birds. I would rather start with good stock, learn to maintain and hopefully improve that foundation, and sell good chicks that are representative of the breed to customers that may or may not show. Before I joined BYC, I was a propagator. I bought chicks at the feed store, and sold those chicks as what they were advertised to me. I think there's more honor in being a fancier and selling quality chicks than there was in being uneducated and selling AmerIcaunas

I guess I am a fancier too. I want the best I can get and I love to raise baby chicks. I have given some away to a couple of friends who I know will never show, but they love them too. As I get a few more, I will be extremely picky as to what I breed, but It will most likely be what I like and the bluest eggs. I may sell some at some point but I doubt I would have enough that it would be worth the effort.

 

[Going Quackers]

Not been on the thread in forever but grabbed a shot of my black roo(have a blue too, but he was elsewhere lol)

Their decent enough boys so I have kept both for now lol

 

[samouw]

Not been on the thread in forever but grabbed a shot of my black roo(have a blue too, but he was elsewhere lol)



Handsome boy, but not a black Ameraucana.

Their decent enough boys so I have kept both for now lol

 

[FowlStuff]

Believe me, I am the last person in the world to be arguing with John, I am totally new at this. That's why I'm surprised to hear him promoting Cackle. Unless you are a masochist, you aren't going to knowingly buy AMs from a hatchery for the "challenge". What is going to happen is someone like me from 3 years ago is going to learn the proper way to spell Ameraucana and put it into a search engine. The results won't be John Blehm, Paul Smith, Cliff Redden or any of the other real breeders near the top. The first return is going to be Cackle hatchery, and most people will order $4 chicks from there. The market is going to be flooded with cheap, ill bred birds, and you guys are going to have the same complaints about the people that bought them showing up at shows as you do the guys with the EEs

I do business, as a whole seller, with a few commercial hatcheries and have become friends with owners of a couple. I have promoted buying hybrid egg producing and meat birds from commercial hatcheries for several years, since they have access to the best. But I've always suggested breeders, not commercial hatcheries, are the best sources for "standard" bred poultry.
When I created LF black, white, blue and buff Ameraucanas close to 30 years ago I bought "hatchery" chicks to get some of the genetics I needed to cross with a bantam cock from Jerry Segler. I didn't need show quality birds of other breeds to develop the varieties of Ameraucanas I had planned.
Some of us have battled for many decades with those BIG commercial hatcheries to get them to stop calling Easter Eggers "Araucanas/Ameraucanas", americana, ameracauna, etc. and we have seen progress. I've seen it posted several times that an Ohio hatchery has real or true blue Ameraucanas. Personally I think it is a step in the right direction for Cackle to offer "real" Ameraucanas also. When a commercial hatchery has the "real thing" it helps force them into renaming their "Araucanas/Ameraucanas" Easter Eggers.

 

[scflock]

I do business, as a whole seller, with a few commercial hatcheries and have become friends with owners of a couple. I have promoted buying hybrid egg producing and meat birds from commercial hatcheries for several years, since they have access to the best. But I've always suggested breeders, not commercial hatcheries, are the best sources for "standard" bred poultry.
When I created LF black, white, blue and buff Ameraucanas close to 30 years ago I bought "hatchery" chicks to get some of the genetics I needed to cross with a bantam cock from Jerry Segler. I didn't need show quality birds of other breeds to develop the varieties of Ameraucanas I had planned.
Some of us have battled for many decades with those BIG commercial hatcheries to get them to stop calling Easter Eggers "Araucanas/Ameraucanas", americana, ameracauna, etc. and we have seen progress. I've seen it posted several times that an Ohio hatchery has real or true blue Ameraucanas. Personally I think it is a step in the right direction for Cackle to offer "real" Ameraucanas also. When a commercial hatchery has the "real thing" it helps force them into renaming their "Araucanas/Ameraucanas" Easter Eggers.

I understand the business move, and anything that could be done to get the hatcheries to call EEs what they are is great. I have so much respect for someone that can make a new accepted breed out of nothing. I can't imagine the years of hard work, experimenting, and culling that it took. That's why I have no problem being called a fancier instead of a breeder. It's because of the work that you guys all did that people like me are able to enjoy those birds now. I just hate to see that process reversed, and a John Blehm line of AMs be reverted back to hatchery stock.
I agree that hatcheries are a good choice for people that only want backyard eggs or meat, but that's how I started, and I am learning so much more about chickens since I got birds from a breeder.

 

[Percheron chick]

Believe me, I am the last person in the world to be arguing with John, I am totally new at this. That's why I'm surprised to hear him promoting Cackle. Unless you are a masochist, you aren't going to knowingly buy AMs from a hatchery for the "challenge". What is going to happen is someone like me from 3 years ago is going to learn the proper way to spell Ameraucana and put it into a search engine. The results won't be John Blehm, Paul Smith, Cliff Redden or any of the other real breeders near the top. The first return is going to be Cackle hatchery, and most people will order $4 chicks from there. The market is going to be flooded with cheap, ill bred birds, and you guys are going to have the same complaints about the people that bought them showing up at shows as you do the guys with the EEs

More power to Cackle for infusing their breeding with top quality birds. They now have to stop calling their EEs ameraucana/araucana. The extra roos will also make it into the EE and OE pens bumping the quality of those birds. They are asking a premium and only offering S/R which will eliminate the people only wanting $4 pullets. The customers that do buy them are going to be better informed which is exactly what the breed needs. People exhibit all the breeds hatcheries raise now. Home grown, hatchery as well as breeders. What's the difference now that hatchery ameraucana have been added to the list? People rarely start with top of the line show animals. They start with what they have and if they enjoy it and want to become more competitive, the quality will go up.

 

[samouw]

More power to Cackle for infusing their breeding with top quality birds. They now have to stop calling their EEs ameraucana/araucana. The extra roos will also make it into the EE and OE pens bumping the quality of those birds. They are asking a premium and only offering S/R which will eliminate the people only wanting $4 pullets. The customers that do buy them are going to be better informed which is exactly what the breed needs. People exhibit all the breeds hatcheries raise now. Home grown, hatchery as well as breeders. What's the difference now that hatchery ameraucana have been added to the list? People rarely start with top of the line show animals. They start with what they have and if they enjoy it and want to become more competitive, the quality will go up.

Please explain how all this is going to happen by having a hatchery, who's primary goal is profit driven not sop driven, selling what they consider pure Ameraucana?
How will that help educate? How will that help the quality go up?

I think scflock absolutely nailed it. In three generations, or less, that line of pure Ameraucanas will be so diminished in quality as to be unrecognizable, and the market and gene pool will be flooded with poor quality Ameraucanas.

This is the saddest thing that could happen to the breed.

 

[junebuggena]

More power to Cackle for infusing their breeding with top quality birds. They now have to stop calling their EEs ameraucana/araucana. The extra roos will also make it into the EE and OE pens bumping the quality of those birds. They are asking a premium and only offering S/R which will eliminate the people only wanting $4 pullets. The customers that do buy them are going to be better informed which is exactly what the breed needs. People exhibit all the breeds hatcheries raise now. Home grown, hatchery as well as breeders. What's the difference now that hatchery ameraucana have been added to the list? People rarely start with top of the line show animals. They start with what they have and if they enjoy it and want to become more competitive, the quality will go up.

I'm pretty sure that Cackle always called their non-standard stock Easter Eggers. It's Murray McMurray that uses the Araucana/Ameraucana title.