Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[Cowgirlgrace]

Ok, I'm usually a lurker but I am going to put my 2 cents in here as I was in 4H as a child. I showed cattle but I think this applies. I can't say this for all parents as mine were active and participated in meeting etc and being a parent myself I try to get educated in what my kids are doing to help them excel and be successful. However, my observations of the a lot of parents is they pretty much just sign the the kids up and drop them off at their meetings. They leave the education totally up to the 4H leaders. Good way to have some free time and enjoy that mocha. Sometimes there is a shortage of leaders and many are not that educated in what they are teaching. They are well meaning people with big hearts for the kids but they need to learn along with the kids. Obviously everyone has the responsiblity, parents and leaders of helping these kids be successful at what they are doing not just giving them an activity. 4H is all about education and the kids should be given the right information. They should also be encouraged to educate themselves about their project by getting on the internet and buying them books on the subject. Get them all a copy of the SOP for Gods sake. By not educating the kids as to proper SOP and what to look for prior to purchasing or choosing a bird and not knowing which class they should be entered in prior to the show, then not disqualifying them when their bird has a disqualification, why are they even in 4H? Why aren't the parents and leaders seeing their need to get educated also. You know what they say, ignorance of the law is no excuse. I was disappointed many times. Someone always had a better steer or breeder than me but it only made me work harder to win. As a result, I have bred animals all my life and always strive for the best even though I know someone else will always have a better one. If disqualifying a bird discouraged the child to the point that they wanted to give up then they either need a pep talk, get another bird and step up the education or parents and leaders need to help that child find something they can be successful at. I think you are doing the child a disservice by coddling them to the point of not disqualifying a bird. How are they going to learn that life has disappointments and you learn from them and move on? Pet classes? Come on! We never had these mamby pamby classes for cows! It was the real deal. Life is real.

 

[cottagegarden]

Life is about choices and we dont really teach our children to be productive and independent if we dumb down stuff.
This is a sorta long but funny story when we joined 4-H a few years ago. We have a great 4h leader who is very passionate about her Amers. and had done a great breed project that year.

Right before Christmas our 4H group had party and we were lucky enough to have a special guest, a lady who does petting zoo birthday parties. She was informative and her animals delightful. I would totally hire her for a party b/c even though our show got a bit fact PG I would think she keeps it not so real at birthday parties. She brought an animal for each of the letters in "Christmas" and the kids were guessing what it was before it was unveiled. It was fine til the last two letters when she pulled out an EE and said it was an Ameraucana for "A". She asked the kids the difference between a Ameraucana and a Araucana and kept talking about her hen. To be fair, the EE was muffed and bearded with slate legs but it was that brown/red color with the black lacing you see in EE's alot. That color that most of my own EE's are.
Since we have both breeds , DS, who is 8 and very particular about facts and chickens he loves, was beside himself every time she said "Ameraucana". He started to disagree every time she said something. It went something like this-
Zoo Lady-Like all Ameraucanas this hen lays a green egg.
DS-"That's b/c its not an Ameraucana. It should lay a blue or blue green egg.
You should have it under "H" for hen, not A."
Zoo Lady-"Do any of you have Ameraucanas? They are mean, arent they? Mine killed my Silkie chicks."
DS-"Actually they are really nice and friendly. Yours isn't a Ameraucana and you probably introduced them wrong."
I think he did work in not an APA recognized color, too, somewhere in her talk.
Picture me proud and mortified at the same time since we are new to the club and I figured that taking issues with guest speaker is not the way to make a great impression.
So on we went to "S" and when the kids guessed maybe the mystery pet was a skunk the Zoo lady said she used to have one, but she had it in her house on the way to a party with a box of chicks and learned the hard way that pet or predator skunks eat chicks.
And if they bite a human they have to be tested for Rabies. Test explained.
Picture group of small children around cute animals and group of parents behind them eggs bugging and jaws dropped that we are talking about dead chicks for the second time in a few minutes and decapitated skunks. Merry Christmas, eh?
Later DS did go up to talk to her , but got distracted by the "S", a Skinny Pig, and lost his chicken mission. The kids were so into the animals I doubt they listened to what she was saying, anyway, although a few days ago when DD asked why we can't have a deer a a pet I mentioned not keeping wild animals being like the skunk. DD said, "Well, I wouldnt want a pet skunk b/c if it bites someone you have to cut its head off and you have wasted a lot of money on a skunk." Guess she did learn something.
And probably..in the end...so did the Petting Zoo Lady!!

 

[donnie]

Quote:
i can relate to this.... as a former 4h member 3 years , ffa member and officer for 4 years , although my area didnt show poultry , we only had lambs, hogs , and cattle for showing , i was interrested in showing poultry then , but they were honest with me and stated they didnt have the knowledge for the showing of poultry .. i have recently started paying attention to some 4 h shows locally and hearing others talk about the shows they have been to with their children , idk about other places but like here , 4h show are most of the time not apa sanctioned so therefore the poultry are not judged to apa standards , which honestly confuses me , if they poultry are not judged to apa standards what are they judged on ?, so with all of this that i have heard and what i have seen for myself , i have been thinking of contacting my local 4h and ffa department cordinators / teachers and talking with them about this , and seeing where they stand on this situation , i know my Ag Teacher was all about the kids learning , if the kids didnt show any interest he wouldnt waste his time , it didnt matter how good or how bad their animal was , it was about the kid and the knowledge the kid was going to obtain , which in my opinion that is where the kids win , its not only in the ring or on the table .......


Maybe we all as breeders of poultry that we are breeding to sop , should get with out local 4h and ffa clubs , and talk with them and put some time into it to help them out , i think this will also not only help these kids and young adults but also help all responsible poultry breeders , it may just be the way im looking at it , but even if you can get thru to one individual that is another person striving to breed or focus on the perfection of another breed or perhaps the same breed that yourself or someone else is working , and which can and will eventually help all poultry inthusiatst...

JUST MY OPINION .....

 

[dak]

I would like to know if there is a judges education program for the APA. At the 900+ bird APA show near me, there were several green legged, non-standard color EEs next to my black, blue, lavender Ameraucanas. They placed last, but they weren't DQ'd.

 

[Goose and Fig]

You know- I do not show, and don't plan on it. My daughter might somewhere down the road. It even effects those of us that aren't in the show circuit because people have seen so called ameraucanas at the fair, and you know- if they saw them labeled as such at the fair they must be the real deal!

This is making me want to sign up to help out with our local 4H. I have yet to see any birds (chickens or ducks or anything) shown in my county- it always beefs and maybe goats and a couple rabbits. Booooooring!

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

Quote:
Seeing the disaster that is our local fair's poultry barn is one of the reasons I stepped up to be the poultry leader of our 4H club. I doubt very much I'd have the sway to change anything as far as what they'll allow to be shown and what gets dq'd, but none of MY kids are going to show a bunch of mutts! LOL

 

[Muggsmagee]

We are a part of 4-H and missed showing last year, but are entertaining the thought of showing this year. I have a few dilemmas. If the judges don't know what they are judging, should we even bother showing our Ameraucanas? I know it is about the experience for the kids, but it is also a competition.

At the poultry show in Syracuse this fall, there was what appeared to be an Australorp entered as an Ameraucana in the 4-h/Juniors section! Straight comb, wattles, no beard, no muffs. It was never DQ'd. I have a lousy pic of it on my cell phone. It still bothers me. 4-H is about learning and experience. Mixed breeds are great too...for the backyard flock. But to show a breed, it should be a pure breed, or a new color (AOV) of another true breed. I don't think setting the bar for 4-Hers is wrong. Entering an EE as an Ameraucana is like saying George Washington was our 5th president. An almost truth doesn't make it truth.

Anybody else want to use my soapbox?

Edited to add the picture...I could have done better...but wanted to get the tag and the bird in the same shot. Sent to fb...copied from there.

 

[Cowgirlgrace]

I think that if a judge does not know the difference between an Ameraucana and an Australorp they shouldn't be judging. I know a lot of 4H shows can't hire APA judges (and from the sounds of it they don't always know what they are doing either) but maybe the powers that be can make sure the proposed judges get a copy of the SOP ahead of time and familiarize themselves with it. And bring it to the show to use as a reference. Seems to me if they only glanced at the disqualifications and faults part of it they would be ahead of the game.

 

[dak]

Quote:
BUT it's the APA judges that are doing this. Both at the APA show AND our county fair this went on. Doug Connolly From Amarillo TX was the APA judge who judged our County fair. There were roughly 5 EE's entered as Ameraucanas. I asked him why they weren't DQ'd. He said if he DQ'd everything that needed to be he would have nothing left to judge. The judge at the APA show did not have this excuse, and didn't DQ either. That's why I have to wonder who oversees these judges. It seems they do whatever they feel like with no repercussions.

 

[ParadiseFoundFarm]

What size leg bands do I need for Ameraucana hens & roosters?