Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[Tailfeathers]

The egg needs to be blue or green. Its part of the breed. It is lacking a breed characteristic.

I read earlier about the person who bred there chickens to lay white eggs. When it comes to showing only: if they would take one of those birds to a show it should be disqualified.

To me its like snipping a white feather out of a black, and hoping the judge doesn't notice. You would be like, please don't lay an egg, its the wrong color........................................

Sorry, but that person was me and you are just wrong. I have taken those birds to a show and, in fact, there was a white egg laying in the pullet's cage when I went around to it after it had been judged. In fact, the judge even commented on how it was one of the best BW pullets he had seen and was a very nice looking bird.

Having an Ameraucana that lays a white egg is NOTHING even close to being synonymous with snipping a white feather out of a black! The white eggs I got were a direct result of my breeding efforts to both increase production AND to remove the brown egg gene modifiers so that I would get a better blue. Snipping a white feather out of a black bird is directly addressed in and by the SOP. Laying a white egg is not. There is absolutely NO comparison that can be made here.

Also, anyone who is familiar with the Ameraucana breed knows that the blue egg tint can and often does diminish over time. Both in any given year depending on the rate of lay and the genetics of the bird and also over time given a hens age. SO, if one starts with a bird that lays a light blue egg to begin with, it is not unusual to see that bird lay a white or very near white egg later on.

Not only that but anyone who breeds colored eggs breeds, whether they be blue or brown, knows that there are a number of variables that can cause a variation in color. I've had my darkest Welsummers inexplicable lay a VERY light brown egg on a particular day and then go right back to laying the very dark eggs. Perhaps this is just one reason why egg color is NOT a given trait to be judged on according to the SOP.

Given all the above, I submit that a judge would not DQ a bird "lacking breed characteristic" based on egg color alone. When I said that an "Ameraucana" which laid a brown egg would likely be DQ'd for lacking other breed characteristics, I was referring specifically to the other ACTUAL breed characteristics that are ACTUALLY listed as traits to be judged on and would be recorded on the judges scoring sheet.

God Bless,

 

[ChickenLeg]

I have a few newby questions!

<~~ HI, I'm a NEWB!


1) When a hen first begins laying eggs can her eggs be fertilized (if a fertile rooster is present)? Or does a certain amount of time need to pass before her eggs can be fertilized?

2) And will the quality of her offspring be as good coming from her first eggs? Or as she becomes fully mature does the offspring produced from her eggs bring forth higher quality of birds?

3) How old typically is an Ameraucana rooster when he becomes fertile for breeding? Once he is fertile, is it better to wait a while before breeding him? Or will his offspring be just as high of a quality of birds, as an older rooster can produce?

 

[Tailfeathers]

I agree. Ameraucana's are still a continuing work in progress.

From what I am reading on the Ameraucana over on the ABC club forum, serious breeders will breed in and breed out given traits. In the case of having white or slightly off color eggs, many of us here have bought eggs represented as robin's egg blue to get light green eggs instead.

Many of the birds like the Ameraucana are being 'worked on' by serious breeders to bring them closer to standard and improve desirable qualities like bluer egg color, higher egg production, better dispositions, etc, as well as type. If they were showing the eggs in the egg class, then the white eggs wouldn't win, but showing the bird in the breed classes it very well could. Besides, Cockerals don't lay eggs.........and a judge can't see the egg color genetics the bird is carrying so it isn't judged on that.

Well said. Excellent points!


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I'm on the fence on that one. On the one hand, the blue egg is a breed characteristic and obviously important. On the other hand, the point of showing birds isn't so much to say that you have the best birds but to get an objective outside opinion on how your breeding program is progressing (or at least it should be the point for serious breeders).

The person earlier with the white eggs did not really select for white egg color in their birds. What they were selecting for was productivity, and it just happened that their most productive layers also happened to have an off color. They freely admit that egg color is a work in progress on their birds, they just about have productivity where they want it to be and will soon be working on getting a proper blue egg along with productivity as the "next step" in their breeding program. In this case, showing a bird with an undesirable egg color would still have a benefit to this breeder to help them in knowing where their program stands on other traits beside egg color.

Again, well said! Excellent points.

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Royce, go read deeper into the history. The LF Ameraucana were approved in 1984 lumped in with the Bantam Ameraucanas that were being put forward for approval. The Bantams had all the numbers and colors etc., but the LF hadn't really even been worked on at that point, let alone 'breeding true'. They didn't exist in all the colors but were approved in all the same 8 colors........Even in 2005 posts, the breeders working on LF had more green eggs than blue eggs, but did have the blue egg gene. Now in 2012 a much higher percentage of them have eggs far closer to the blue ranges in color than the green eggs of a mere 7 years ago. I'd say were were all lucky to be getting Ameraucanas from serious breeders that have been in the game for 15-20 years and done so much work to get the breed as consistent as it is to type with improved egg color.

I'm sorry, I just feel the newbies need to know this. The LF Ameraucana is a new breed and lots of work has gone into getting it up to where it is today. Now if it were a RIR we were talking about........how long have THEY been bred? 80-100 years or so?

Clyde, I know. I've read that too. In fact, I was a bit shocked to find out that the LF were accepted off of the Bantams and without even being shown. I wasn't aware that could happen and still, even to this day, don't understand how it happened according to what I read in the SOP.

Also, I think my post was a bit misunderstood and what I wanted to relay is that green being present is still indicative of a bird carrying a blue egg gene. A totally brown egg would be indicative of a bird lacking any blue genes and therefore I would surmise that it also lacked other characteristics intrinsically required by the breed. Such as green legs perhaps.

God Bless,

 

[Tailfeathers]

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Once someone takes another breeders birds and chooses what to keep and which birds to breed, it is no longer the former persons line. It is in fact their line.

Amen to that Jean! Bravo Zulu to you for pointing that out. There's been a TON of discussion about this over at the Welsummers and I really wish more folks would understand this.

God Bless,

 

[Tailfeathers]

I have a few newby questions!

<~~ HI, I'm a NEWB!


1) When a hen first begins laying eggs can her eggs be fertilized (if a fertile rooster is present)? Or does a certain amount of time need to pass before her eggs can be fertilized?

2) And will the quality of her offspring be as good coming from her first eggs? Or as she becomes fully mature does the offspring produced from her eggs bring forth higher quality of birds?

3) How old typically is an Ameraucana rooster when he becomes fertile for breeding? Once he is fertile, is it better to wait a while before breeding him? Or will his offspring be just as high of a quality of birds, as an older rooster can produce?

1) Yes. If a fertile rooster is present, she probably is fertile. My experience is that the pullets start getting mounted even before they're laying. In fact, I think the males seem to prefer the young pullets. Perhaps because they don't fight them off as much.

2) I suppose that would tend to depend on who you listen to. I am convinced what Kenny Troiano said makes sense and therefore I am choosing fromo now on to mate mostly my hens at two years old. Also, Kenny says that pullet eggs seem to have a less successful hatch rate and produces smaller birds. Makes sense to me. Small egg, small chick.

3) A cockerel should be fertile by five months. Perhaps a bit sooner. There's probably some correlation between crowing and fertility. Hormones. Testosterone. Again, as to age and producing quality birds. I think there is a lot to what Kenny says about the older birds having proven themselves.

Look at it this way, say you have a cockerel or pullet that you breed right at six months. They aren't even fully matured yet. Let alone the fact that you have no idea what kind of resistance to disease it has, vitality, rate of lay, etc.

Now, having said that, if you're starting with a small flock and need to breed young to grow the size of your flock, you may have to do what you have to do. The above is just a few points to consider. And while I'm at it, I would recommend you subscribe to the Poultry Press and read all you can from the more experienced breeders.

God Bless,

 

[GA_in_GA]

He's just bit high in the center, but he's not done growing yet. That comb won't finish until around 14 months.

I am more concerned about the feathers sticking up on his head. He almost looks like he is trying to grow a crest..... or, he could just have messy bed head. I look like the wild girl from Borneo when I get up.

Jean,

Thank you so much for your reply. I will keep an eye on those head feathers and his comb.

 

[admhotel]

Once someone takes another breeders birds and chooses what to keep and which birds to breed, it is no longer the former persons line. It is in fact their line.

The only time I think it is important to know where someones birds come from is when you want to diversify your lines. It should be a question asked by a buyer not used as a advertised selling point. Like Jean said once you set up the breeding pens they are your line.

 

[DMRippy]

Well said. Excellent points!


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Again, well said! Excellent points.

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Clyde, I know. I've read that too. In fact, I was a bit shocked to find out that the LF were accepted off of the Bantams and without even being shown. I wasn't aware that could happen and still, even to this day, don't understand how it happened according to what I read in the SOP.

Also, I think my post was a bit misunderstood and what I wanted to relay is that green being present is still indicative of a bird carrying a blue egg gene. A totally brown egg would be indicative of a bird lacking any blue genes and therefore I would surmise that it also lacked other characteristics intrinsically required by the breed. Such as green legs perhaps.

God Bless,

 

[DMRippy]

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Amen to that Jean! Bravo Zulu to you for pointing that out. There's been a TON of discussion about this over at the Welsummers and I really wish more folks would understand this.

God Bless,

Same way with Marans.... how many generations ago were they so and so's birds.... 1 or 8 they are not those breeders birds anymore. I will never advertise that they are from those breeders as I know my Marans are several generations from those breeders. Now I will tell the lines my birds come from if I am breeding them for the first gen from that breeder but those are MY breeding decisions. I am just using those birds to improve my breeding and in order to sell to some one must prove the lineage....

BTW Babies hatching tomorrow!

 

[DMRippy]

The only time I think it is important to know where someones birds come from is when you want to diversify your lines. It should be a question asked by a buyer not used as a advertised selling point. Like Jean said once you set up the breeding pens they are your line.

It is a requirement to sell to most. But I agree, the birds should be bought on the merits of the breeder and not the lineage. That is just the way it is though