Ameraucanas, a question

[rc50]

Hi hope all are great... I noticed when I look at hatchery listings for everything from a Plymouth Rocks to a Leghorns that they show different varieties Buff Rocks.... Barred Rocks, White Leghorns, Red Leghorns, Brown, Light Brown Leghorn... etc... but when you look at Ameraucanas they show just Ameraucanas... don't they have varieties tooo? just wondering what was up with that....


thanks a ton!!!

 

[teach1rusl]

99% of what hatcheries call "Ameraucanas" are actually Easter Eggers. And because Easter Eggers are hybrids mixed with different things to get green, blue, pinkish eggs, they can look very different from one another, but it's still just an easter egger - there is no breeding to a certain color or feather pattern. Most (but not all, since they're mixed) EEs will have pea combs and muffs/beards, but that's about where the commonalities end. That's my understanding of it at least.

 

[Ridgerunner]

That is a touchy topic with some people. I'm not aware of any hatchery that actually sells true Ameraucanas. To be an Ameraucana, the chicken has to meet specific standards in recognized color or pattern. It also needs to meet other specific standards, including eye color, leg color, body configuration, comb type, muffs, and a lot of other things. Also, if a hen, in needs to lay blue eggs. Green or brown is not allowed. These requirements are found in the "Standards of Perfection" for each and every breed. On this forum, the chickens that do not meet these standards of perfection for Ameraucanas are called Easter Eggers or EE's for short.

The hatchery chickens are sometimes called Ameraucana, but they just don't follow these standards. They do not try to keep the different recognized colors and patterns separate like they do with the Rock, Wyandotte, or the other breeds. Their pullets often lay green or even some shade of brown egg. The hatcheries are selling chickens that should look pretty and lay colored eggs. They are not breeding for show.

The Ameraucana Breeders Association put has this comparison of what makes and Ameraucana, Araucana, and Easter Egger. It highlights the differences. Strangely, to me anyway, they call Easter Eggers "Americanas". Notice the difference in spelling. Talk about needlessly adding to the confusion!

http://apa-abayouthpoultryclub.org/Edu_Material/Easter Eggers vs.pdf

To further add to the confusion, many hatchery EE flocks are based on Ameraucanas, often initially crossing Ameraucanas with other breeds to improve egg laying. If you check the history, Ameraucanas and Araucanas were developed from blue egg laying chickens originally from Chile. Just like every other breed that has been developed, some people wrote down some "standards of perfection" so they could show their chickens and compete against each other and then developed chickens to meet those standards. Because the hatcheries used Ameraucanas to start their colored egg laying flocks and many still call these Ameraucanas, many people believe an EE should have the qualities, such as leg color, as the Ameraucana. They can have those characteristics, but they don't have to.

Some hatcheries are better than others with many of the other breeds, but their other breeds don't generally meet the Standards of Perfection for that breed very well either. Their breeding methods are set up to provide mass production of chicks that somewhat follow the standards, not breed chicks for show. Even the best of breeders that carefully pair specific roosters with specific hens to try to get that "perfect" show chicken have many more rejects than perfect chickens. But at least most at least try to keep Partridge Rocks separate from White Rocks or Barred Rocks. With their EE's, the hatcheries don't even try that.

 

[speckledhen]

Ridge is correct. Hatcheries do not sell Ameraucanas. If they did, they certainly could offer varieties, as there are 8 accepted colors of the true Ameraucana. If you want a true Ameraucana, you need to get it from a real breeder, not someone who propagates the EEs they originally got from a hatchery.

Easter Eggers, which is what they all sell, do not breed true and come in all sorts of wild variations of pattern and color so they can't even anticipate what you'll get.


This thread is wonderful for its discussion of the differences between Ameraucanas, Araucanas and what all the hatcheries sell, the Easter Eggers: https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=128806


I have some EEs (created by me, not hatchery-bought) and I own breeder quality Ameraucanas, like these lovely blue, black and splash ladies, who are getting older now, 4 and 5 years old.

 

[AinaWGSD]

Yes, Ameraucanas come in eight recognized varieties (Black, White, Blue (blue, black, and splash), Buff, Silver, Wheaten, Blue Wheaten, and Brown Red). Then there are also a few project colors that some breeders are working seriously on towards getting accepted, such as Lavender.

However, as teach1rusl has pointed out, hatcheries are not actually selling Ameraucanas. They are selling Easter Eggers, which do not come in any standardized colors and are out of totally mixed color breeding pens (ie, the hatcheries aren't separating their breeders so that they get specific colored chicks from their birds). Hatcheries breed for one trait alone in their birds, and that is production. The breed the birds that produce the most eggs, both because that is what the majority of their customers are looking for and because a bird that lays more eggs will be able to produce more chicks in a given period of time than one that is merely an average layer. As a result of selecting almost purely for production, none of the breeds they sell (including the plymouth rocks, buff orpingtons, "rhode island reds," leghorns, et al) really resemble the breed description as written in the standard of perfection. Many of the breeds they carry have even been cross bred with some other breed at some point to increase production. So, if you're looking for backyard laying hens, a hatchery could be a great choice. But if you're looking for birds that you could potentially show, or birds that actually look like their breed is supposed to look and posses all of the traits that breed is supposed to have, then you would be better off to skip the hatchery all together and get your birds from a breeder that breeds to the standard of perfection.

 

[Ridgerunner]

  But if you're looking for birds that you could potentially show, or birds that actually look like their breed is supposed to look and posses all of the traits that breed is supposed to have, then you would be better off to skip the hatchery all together and get your birds from a breeder that breeds to the standard of perfection.

rc50, I apologize for hijacking your thread, but I want to make a distinction. Hopefully you will forgive me.

I know I'm being knit-picky but I want to give my spin on your last statement. There are a lot of breeders out there that are breeding to the Standard of Perfection as regards to showing birds, but there are extremely few that are breeding to all the traits the breed is supposed to have. When a judge sees a bird in a show, he/she can only see certain physical traits. They cannot see production or behaviorla traits. They have no idea how well that hen lays, the color or size of eggs, how fast they reach butcher weight, whether they can forage or not, whether they go broody often or not, how aggressive they are, or many other behavioral or production traits that should be part of what the breed is really supposed to be all about.

If what you want is a bird to show, yes there are a lot of breeders stock to choose from. But if you want a bird that has all the traits that the breed is supposed ot have, there are extremely few breeders that are actually trying to do that. That's why you occasionally run across the statement that there are only two of three flocks in existence that truly conform to what the breed is supposed to be, while you see many people breeding that breed to "show" standards of perfection.

As an example I'll use Rhode Island Reds. They have a reputation of being human aggressive. If all you breed for is appearance or as is often the case with RIR's, egg production, you don't care whether they are human aggressive or not. But the breed is supposed to be a backyard egg laying production breed where kids can go collect the eggs. If you are truly breeding for the traits this breed is supposed to have and you make human aggression a fatal flaw, in a few generations you develop a trait of them not being as human aggressive. You'll never totally get rid of it in any breed, like you cannot totally breed broodiness out of a breed, but you can have a huge impact in a few generations.

 

[rc50]

Well thanks a ton for all the info.... I myself in my breeding try my best to breed to the true nature of what I am breeding.... I ask what, why was this breed created to do in the first place most breeds around today were breed for meat or eggs or both....I do my best to breed to the standard with that in mind.... I breed Hampbars.... an autosexing breed... having spend seven years in research and breeding I know that they were created to be sexed at hatch... that they should be a good layer and leave a meaty body... and that is what I try to do... but I also know they are to look like New Hampshires body wise.... I try to do that.... The point in my question about Ameraucanas was just me wondering how a hatchery or any hatchery can just be selling Ameraucanas.... if people want to buy a colored egg and that is all they want. I see how this happen... for me it is like having a yard full of brown egg layers all mixed up.... the past has shown that in doing that, and I am thinking of what I have read that just mixing them up they will get worse not better.... and how can you call any breed a breed...
a few years ago I was looking for Barred Rocks... so I found a breeder not far from me that had some for sale... I went there bought two that were about five weeks old... not too long after that you could tell that one was not a Barred Rock.... but a rose combed mixed.... so I do not go to a breeder that has four different breeds running lose and buy a pure breed from them.... how do they know..... ?