Ameraucanas: Am I off base here?

[nicalandia]

Ya after the fact.


My point was the araucana came first and to say aracauna or ameraucana came from EEs is backwards.

Except that according to the Ameraucana breeders by the 1970s hatcheries were selling birds that were clearly not Araucanas and were often called Easter Egg chickens, according to the founding breeders Easter Eggers(amongst other breeds) were used to create the Ameraucana, All of that is documented by the reference links I provided. You are going by what You recall around that time and perhaps the breed creators are retroactevely naming the Blue eggers they were using at the time(Blue Egg mongrels) as Easter Eggers. But the term EE is clearly embeded on their foundation history.


So instead of being an unwanted byproduct EEs are actually a very important part of the Ameraucana history

 

[The Moonshiner]

That's where I don't agree. I don't believe EEs have any importance in the Ameraucanas history.
IMO EE is just label and yes it is being retroactevely applied to the birds of back then.
Back then all those birds were being called Araucana. Araucana and Ameraucana were being developed side by side from the same birds but towards two different ideas of the standard.
The Araucana won out with their ideas and retained the name.
Ameraucana breeders came back feeling left out in the cold but didn't give up renaming their breed American Araucana and continued breeding in their direction.
Of course that name became shortened to Ameraucana and they were finally also accepted.
Back then it was a fight between the two ideas of what the birds should be and the goal was to get accepted and wear the Araucana crown.
Both sides were very passionate about their birds being Araucana and no one was using the name or term Easter Eggers for their birds.
I raised both back then. Starting with Araucana then jumping ship to Ameraucana because of the lethal gene and wanting to avoid it.
I was young so I didn't get into the politics but I'm older now and don't like the idea that people believe EEs were involved or used to create either breed.
They were Araucana and then forced to split to Araucana and Ameraucana.

 

[nicalandia]

I was young so I didn't get into the politics but I'm older now and don't like the idea that people believe EEs were involved or used to create either breed.

I've been trying to find Murray Mcmurray catalog of the 1970s, I've been told that it was one of the source of the EE stock used by some original breeders. Perhaps I Will never find it. I am not against applying the current term of what EEs are to birds back then.. Because we can then Say that EEs we're Also used to create the CCL breed(Punnetts description of the Chilean Stock as mongrels)

So Technically EEs have been very important to many breeds and their history. Take pride of your humble EEs

 

[The Moonshiner]

Lol
Well with the current description of EEs being of any color/pattern, any comb type, any skin/shank color and lay blue, green, brown, white or even pink eggs.
Then I guess you could go back and say every breed came from EEs.

 

[nicalandia]

Lol
Well with the current description of EEs being of any color/pattern, any comb type, any skin/shank color and lay blue, green, brown, white or even pink eggs.
Then I guess you could go back and say every breed came from EEs.

Not entirely:

What are Easter Egg chickens?
The Ameraucana Alliance defines an Easter Egg chicken or Easter Egger as any chicken that possesses the blue egg gene, but doesn't fully meet any breed descriptions as defined in the APA and/or ABA standards. Further, even if a bird meets an Ameraucana standard breed description, but doesn't meet a variety description or breed true at least 50% of the time it is considered an Easter Egg chicken. By definition an Easter Egger is not a breed of chicken.

 

[The Moonshiner]

So the Easter Egger is by definition what the Ameraucana Alliance says it is?
So since the Ameraucana Alliance was formed in 1978 wouldn't that mean there were no Easter Eggers before 1978?

Hatcheries sell EEs in which some don't carry a blue egg gene. I'd ive heard over and over that EEs can lay any color egg.

Now I'm confused. Are hatcheries that actually label those birds EEs and a multitude of members here incorrect about what EEs actually are?
Or does the Ameraucana Alliance have it right and retro labeled birds of the past EEs?

 

[nicalandia]

So the Easter Egger is by definition what the Ameraucana Alliance says it is?
So since the Ameraucana Alliance was formed in 1978 wouldn't that mean there were no Easter Eggers before 1978?

Hatcheries sell EEs in which some don't carry a blue egg gene. I'd ive heard over and over that EEs can lay any color egg.

Now I'm confused. Are hatcheries that actually label those birds EEs and a multitude of members here incorrect about what EEs actually are?
Or does the Ameraucana Alliance have it right and retro labeled birds of the past EEs?

I was lucky to find a reference dating back to 1973, those hatcheries were selling what they called Araucanas(but pics show muff and beards) On the description they put: Chickens that lay Easter Eggs or Lay Colored Easter Eggs and also put the false claim that these easter eggs were more nutritious and had less cholesterol, we can link these claims and "easter eggers" historic reference made by the Ameraucana Breeders Club here: http://ameraucanabreedersclub.org/history.html


So during early 70s before the APA formally accepted the Araucana there were hatcheries selling "Araucanas" that were clearly mutts. Breeders at the time working with either Rumpless or Tailed types saw them as just Easter Egg chickens not even naming them.. So they internally termed them as Easter Eggers.

So the Ameraucana Alliance have given these "Easter Egg" chickens a formal term one that were used by them informally during the 70s before the Great Ameraucana/Araucana Schism

Here is the reference made by the Field & Stream Magazine of January 1973

(need to zoom in to see detail description)
https://books.google.com.ni/books?id=a3kPJh-roO0C&pg=PA147#v=onepage&q&f=true

 

[The Moonshiner]

Thats what I was saying.
Those birds were called Araucana not Easter Eggers. I don't disagree that some advertised them as laying easter eggs but they didn't refer to them as easter eggers as in a breed name.
Of course they were mutts (what breed isn't until the APA accepts them right?) And of course there was a lot of variations. Other wise there wouldn't be what we know as Araucana and Ameraucana today.
That even furthers my point. Back then they were not even close to a standardized breed and yet they were still called Aracauna not EEs.
Breeders at the time were calling them something.
I and every breeder I knew were calling them Aracauna. Even the ones breeding towards muffs, beards and tails.
Side note when I first raised Araucana most of us thought it was the rumpless gene that was lethal so we all kept tailed birds to breed to rumpless.
There wasn't an Ameraucana Alliance before the Araucana/Ameraucana schism.
The fight was over and the Ameraucana breeders lost before the term Ameraucana came to be there for before the alliance was formed.
That brings up another point. It isn't clear to me even when the AA decided to define easter eggers.
It also tells me that when serious breeders are involved in the APA or AA or simular they see their word as law so even if breeders didn't use the term Easter egger I can bet as soon as the AA brought it up and wrote it down that they sure started to than whether they thought it was correct or not.
I also found stuff from the early 70s to as late as 96 that advertised Araucana but none that labeled theirs as EEs.
I'm not sure when hatcheries made the switch. As we know some still don't call their birds EEs.

 

[nicalandia]

Thats what I was saying.
Those birds were called Araucana not Easter Eggers.

I don't disagree that some advertised them as laying easter eggs but they didn't refer to them as easter eggers as in a breed.

I also found stuff from the early 70s to as late as 96 that advertised Araucana but none that labeled theirs as EEs.
I'm not sure when hatcheries made the switch. As we know some still don't call their birds EEs.

I Also researched from 1960s to late 1990s and no hatchery has called the EEs. But people have been informally calling them EEs sice the 70s at least by the breeders of both Araucanas and Ameraucanas.

Am I wrong to Say that before the APA accepted the Ameraucanas All of them were EEs with a breeding purpose of acceptance?

Found this from late 1960s

CLINTON HATCHERY Inc. From Chile, The Easter Egg Chicken, I don't see the name Araucana but in the 70s the same hatchery named them Araucanas

 

[The Moonshiner]

Well since they were all called Araucana from the time they got here until after the Araucana were accepted and the Ameraucana breeders changed to American Araucana then Ameraucana then yes I would say its wrong to call them EEs.
I honestly never heard the term easter egger being used as a name for them until after the Ameraucana was accepted and really not to any extent until after the 2000s.
We both found no reference of hatcheries even using the name so I would say the only correct term would be Araucana and I wouldn't continue to say Ameraucana came from EEs.
Araucana came first then Ameraucana then EEs.
But hey I'm just going by what I was involved in and saw around me.
I understand EEs have became a big craze and people take what they read as fact and thinking EEs started it all is a great underdog story.
I just can't buy into what someone regurgitates as fact when I know personally it isn't.
None of that is directed to you specifically just in general.
Also this discussion was just a discussion and ya at times I just wanted to rattle your cage.