American Onagadori?

[IndianaGardener]

A car with another engine still looks like the original car, they just run differently. That is my point, if the birds looked like Onagadori, that would be another thing. However, they do not look like Onagadori.

I am homozygous for my trait, which is Viet right? My mom is Viet and so is my father. So why would it be wrong to call it American Onagadori when I can be considered Vietnamese American?

Unlike you, Cy's birds are not homozygous. You just covered the whole issue there.


David​

 

[TommyVT05]

Quote:
Unlike you, Cy's birds are not homozygous. You just covered the whole issue there.


David

David & Others,

First off, I am not trying to argue, but reason my way to why they are called what they are called. Hope you can understand the difference. Anyhow, as for the car example, true can be said visa-versa. The engine can be seen as the cross breed engine just to keep the Camaro running. Therefore, you can't call it a true Camaro nor can you call it a true Mustang even though both parts are equally imperative; the chassis and the engine. Like the "American" and the "Onagadori". They can't be called just the Onagadori because that is not true but they can't be called "Phoenix" or "Longtails" either because the is under-representing what they are so thus Mr. Hyde and I concluded on "American and U.S Onagadori". Perhaps it sounds offending to you right now because of your "Onagadori Project" but over time, once your project is successful for the "True Onagadori", wouldn't all this clear up by then?

Needless to say, there are greater causes to the misunderstanding of the name and please don't think its coming from me nor Mr. Hyde.

If you just open the catalog of McMurray, Strombergs, Ideal, Cackle, etc...you will see what I mean. They LITERALLY present their Phoenix as "Onagadori" by stating such things. "These birds can grow 20+ feet tails that lives in the imperial palace of Japan..." And guess what, I actually took the initiative to call them when I found this out about a year ago when I saw their online catalog and to my surprise, they said I was the first to call them in regards to this and they will take it to their board for reconsideration. A whole year later, its still the same.

So in broad, customers...by the 1,000's get misleaded by that and go online to search for more information about them and then later call them "Onagadori" from forums and such, thinking that..."Onagadori is just another name for the Phoenix, right?" Breeders who focus on only a few breeds like me barely sell to a handful of folks a year, not to mention all the time I spent explaining the differences on the phone to folks who called and asked and the endless hours of e-mails I have to reply to differentiate the difference? Folks I have directed over to the Onagadori Forum and other online resource is not by a little so don't think I am trying to dominate the sales or name calling of these wonderful fowls. So all that work goes down the drain just because the word "American Onagadori" is in use?

To be quite frank, I direct my energy to changing what needs to be changed rather than just debating over a small name...

- Tommy

 

[Justino]

Those are pretty darn cool birds!

!

And jeeze i sorta saw this starting to stir into trouble....guys its the internet

no need for fightinggggg

 

[IndianaGardener]

It's not a small name, it's a breed. Just because a hatchery does it, that does not make it right. As breeders we should have higher standards; both in our fowl and in our business practices.

Educated judges at shows are already DQ'ing birds shown as Phoenix that have too limp of tails and birds shown in the "all other" class as "Onagadori" are DQ'ed for incorrect traits almost right off because birds here simply don't have the right traits. So people are learning that there is a difference. Fight it all you want. Facts are facts.


David

 

[chickenme]

Not to add insult to injury or anything, but is this not ur post?

http://dtsfowl.webs.com/apps/guestbook/

Its Tommy from BYC. Very nice website! Great design. I enjoy browing around. Its cool that you raise the American Gamefowl. Now I know another source! Haha. Anyhow, I like your website, so do you want to exchange links? Mine is:

~ Tommy's Pet Paradise ~ http://www.TommysPetParadise.com

I am sure you heard of it or have been there before. Hope that works out for ya! : )

Good day,

- Tommy

PS: I specialize in the American Onagadori (Japanese Longtails), Jungle Fowls, Serama and Exotic Pheasants.

Please don't try and claim innocents in what u are sayin, as this goes to show that you yourself are misrepresenting what you have!!​

 

[domino7]

I think you should be able to call them whatever you see fit. You aren't trying to misrepresent them in any way. You are adding the American or US to distinguish them. To me, it seems appropriate.

 

[TommyVT05]

Quote:
David,

You are overlooking at what I wrote. I am not saying I am calling them whatever I want because hatcheries do it, but look at it this way, I have done something about it directly and have tried to make some changes. You on the other hand are just trying to pick on me because you think I am using the term "incorrectly". How about let time tell you what I have contributed to the "American Longtails", as you call it, from the folks I have clarified with? I would say no less than 100 folks. When I recall talking to Mr. Hyde, I asked him if you or Toni-Marie ever called to discuss the name calling of these birds and he simply said "no". I mean, Mr. Hyde has been calling his the "U.S. Onagadori" way back when and just because I renamed it to sound more smooth...as the "American Onagadori", and that its wrong?

I know you have worked years and years on this breed to bring out the facts about this breed and I am not fighting facts with you. In all honesty, even though you do put me down sometimes, I still think you should really be commended for your work but as far as the term "American Onagadori" goes, I am not extorting it by any means. I am simply passing on what I am told because I am still BREEDING that very same line...

Don't know if this matters much but as soon as I can find and refine my own line and pick out MY breeders, I am more than happy to call my longtails "American Longtails", however, you don't seem to want to help aid me on that. Even though you are strongly defending the right name to call it here, when I asked to get better birds (even as eggs) from you, so I can soon have my own line without having to explain the name everywhere I go, I was simply turned down. So I see that you have more interest in drawing attention to the name than helping fix that problem at its core…

How could you possibly set me up in a corner like this and starting beating me up with the names?

- Tommy

 

[TommyVT05]

Quote:
Please don't try and claim innocents in what u are sayin, as this goes to show that you yourself are misrepresenting what you have!!

Hello Chickenme,

Yeah...what do you know!!! Another "NEW EGG" that joined and their first post is in regards to this topic...talking about being obvious...

Is it just me or does it occurr to anyone these the last 3 "New Members" just joined to start problems and stirr up whats being discussed? Perhaps even trying to extort matters for their own enjoyment?

And yes, they are considered "Japanese-American" Longtails...if you will...so how is that misleading? That simply states that they are Japanese Longtail decendants bred in America...

 

[chickenwhisperer123]

Quote:
Please don't try and claim innocents in what u are sayin, as this goes to show that you yourself are misrepresenting what you have!!

We have already covered that they are called American Onagadori. Do you have an actual point?

 

[TommyVT05]

Quote:
Domino7,

Thank you! Another person who understand what I am trying to say...

In general, the term Onagadori is simply defined as "Long-tailed Fowl" from Japan, so that is Japanese Longtailed Fowl if you will. With that being said...American Onagadori doesn't mislead it since it simply means "American-Japanese Longtailed Fowl" or "Japanese-American Longtailed-Fowl" which simplifies to the fact that these are Longtails bred in America. And just because they have to be out-crossed a couple times to keep the line going, and then later bred back (Line Breeding) doesn't mean the "Onagadori" blood in them gets completly ignored...right?

- Tommy