American serama thread!

[yellowherb]

My best hatch on serama shipped eggs has been checing the air cells and paying close attention to them. Incubating them upright in egg cartons and hand turning them 3 times a day with no turning for the first two days to stabilize them has been best for me to let the air cells settle.

Thanks for the info! I too set shipped eggs upright and do not turn them for several days.
I will take a chance since my egg rocker turner is probably smoother turning eggs than my less than nimble fingers are. My husbands 1st turner was a see saw type for a teeny little incubator he made as a test. It was actually pretty brilliant for hand turning, just adjust it down or up. I tend to forget things though so it's far better for the eggs to be auto turned every 2 hours than the possibility that I forget for a day and a half. I probably could get him to adjust the timer on the turner to every 4 hours or 3hrs, etc. But we will see how this goes as is first.
Thanks so much for your input.

 

[meltel]

Thanks for the info! I too set shipped eggs upright and do not turn them for several days.
I will take a chance since my egg rocker turner is probably smoother turning eggs than my less than nimble fingers are. My husbands 1st turner was a see saw type for a teeny little incubator he made as a test. It was actually pretty brilliant for hand turning, just adjust it down or up. I tend to forget things though so it's far better for the eggs to be auto turned every 2 hours than the possibility that I forget for a day and a half. I probably could get him to adjust the timer on the turner to every 4 hours or 3hrs, etc. But we will see how this goes as is first.
Thanks so much for your input.

I too have hand issues right now

What i have heard from a lot of people is that instead of turning the eggs they prop the cartons from side to side-genius! Takes away dropsies and less chance of bacterial contamination that way from manual hand turning. I don't get shipped eggs much anymore and really like the incuturn as well as wanting to test the cabinet

 

[the poppster]

For anyone who wants a different topic, This is Helena! I got her from Pixie Chickens last year and she has the most amazing grey eyes. Has anyone else here ever had a serama with grey eyes? I haven't bred her yet but might set some of her eggs soon. Have her with a splash boy at the moment. I want to hatch from her before she's too old to lay (I think she's already around 3 yr old) but already have a lot of birds. Anyway, I wonder what chances are that any of her offspring will have grey eyes. Pics of her parents looked like they had not red eyes but hard to tell exactly what color they were. I could ask the breeder but it's fun to speculate and I think I'm looking forward to the surprise of it when I finally hatch from her.

She's beauty!!

 

[formerchickenlass]

I just looked at my blues before their bedtime. None have that gorgeous color eyes! Let me know what you get from her!!!

What roo are you going to breed her to?

I have her with a young splash boy at the moment & can't decide whether to hatch those or wait. He's got a few little issues. But he's split for chocolate and I think she could pick up the type on my chocolate females. I have two choc roosters and so far I don't love the type on any of the pullets they threw for me this year.

What I really want is to get a nice black silkied cock for her from June Suhm since she carries 1 copy of silkied gene. Waiting for weather to warm enough for shipping.

 

[formerchickenlass]

Gorgeous. Her eye color caught my eye before I even read the post!

Just as a curiosity for everyone who is experienced with Seramas, why are there issues with fertility and/or hatching? Since it seems to happen with micros a lot or the smaller seramas I assume this is due to size? Are the reproductive organs unusally small which is one reason these chickens never reach a larger size, sort of like Turner's syndrome in humans?

My understanding is that the issues occurring with micros are similar to issues with dwarfism in other species. Lots of related health issues and poor overall fitness. I am not sure whether micro seramas are proportionate or disproportionate dwarfs. Good question! I've read casually that there are several genes responsible for size in seramas and that micros are birds that just got too many of the dwarfing genes, but it's not a very satisfying answer.

As for fertility and hatching issues with non-micros, it could be that the smaller egg size means it's more sensitive to imperfect humidity. Indeed many improve their hatch simply by getting away from cheaper incubators and getting one that keeps a reliable temp and humidity. Beyond that, people incubate with all different humidities with success. I think it comes down to knowing your own eggs. Birds who make a thicker shell, or fresher eggs, these are eggs that may not need as high a humidity. Thin shelled eggs that will evaporate faster, old eggs, these probably need more humidity support.

Thin/porous shells may be more susceptible to bacteria. Many people keep their seramas indoors or in cages. These birds may not get as much vitamin D, and may have issues with calcium absorption (I'm speculating) that leads to thinner shells than what you'd normally see in other breeds that just go out in a run or yard each day.

Also, some folks are probably at a level where they can set eggs that were all laid on the same day. I suspect that when you set serama eggs laid over 7 or more days, you're bound to hit the ideal conditions for some and not for others.

Beyond that there are certainly genetic issues. Some pairings produce well and others don't. There may be one or more lethal genes.

 

[nchls school]

Quote:

 

[vasher]

As for fertility and hatching issues with non-micros, it could be that the smaller egg size means it's more sensitive to imperfect humidity. Indeed many improve their hatch simply by getting away from cheaper incubators and getting one that keeps a reliable temp and humidity. Beyond that, people incubate with all different humidities with success. I think it comes down to knowing your own eggs. Birds who make a thicker shell, or fresher eggs, these are eggs that may not need as high a humidity. Thin shelled eggs that will evaporate faster, old eggs, these probably need more humidity support.

Thin/porous shells may be more susceptible to bacteria. Many people keep their seramas indoors or in cages. These birds may not get as much vitamin D, and may have issues with calcium absorption (I'm speculating) that leads to thinner shells than what you'd normally see in other breeds that just go out in a run or yard each day.

Also, some folks are probably at a level where they can set eggs that were all laid on the same day. I suspect that when you set serama eggs laid over 7 or more days, you're bound to hit the ideal conditions for some and not for others.

Beyond that there are certainly genetic issues. Some pairings produce well and others don't. There may be one or more lethal genes.

Hmm, you may be on to something, at least with my very limited experience. It took ~8 days to collect the 6 eggs, and the air cells were developing rather unevenly between the eggs, so some were right where they should be (older ones?), and some were quite small (fresh?). Now, my incubator is a cheap-o one, but it has a large fan relative to its size, so I don't think there would be uneven humidity across the incubator itself. I wonder if there is some variation in shell thickness, even from the same hen...

And here in the Pacific Northwest, many people get Vit D deficienty, let alone chickens. I have been supplementing with powdered vitamin in water that contains Vit D, so maybe something good will come of it!

 

[meltel]

Hmm, you may be on to something, at least with my very limited experience. It took ~8 days to collect the 6 eggs, and the air cells were developing rather unevenly between the eggs, so some were right where they should be (older ones?), and some were quite small (fresh?). Now, my incubator is a cheap-o one, but it has a large fan relative to its size, so I don't think there would be uneven humidity across the incubator itself. I wonder if there is some variation in shell thickness, even from the same hen...

And here in the Pacific Northwest, many people get Vit D deficienty, let alone chickens. I have been supplementing with powdered vitamin in water that contains Vit D, so maybe something good will come of it!

Hey don't knock you cheap-o bator lol

. i think I started with the same on-first hatch ever- and got 3/4 malaysians!!!! Unfortunately Up until now I have not been able to keep them alive past 10 days but

on ones being raised by a broody now!!!

 

[formerchickenlass]

Hmm, you may be on to something, at least with my very limited experience. It took ~8 days to collect the 6 eggs, and the air cells were developing rather unevenly between the eggs, so some were right where they should be (older ones?), and some were quite small (fresh?). Now, my incubator is a cheap-o one, but it has a large fan relative to its size, so I don't think there would be uneven humidity across the incubator itself. I wonder if there is some variation in shell thickness, even from the same hen...

And here in the Pacific Northwest, many people get Vit D deficienty, let alone chickens. I have been supplementing with powdered vitamin in water that contains Vit D, so maybe something good will come of it!

Which supplement are you using? I'd like to have something on hand besides the Poultry Cell, which contains iron (hence why I only use it irregularly).

I did some reading today on vitamin D and chickens and based on those readings, D deficiency can show up as thin shells, no shells, and embryos that die at day 18-19.

Here's a quite long, informative article about D in poultry: http://www.dsm.com/markets/anh/en_US/Compendium/poultry/vitamin_D.html

The author(s) writes that D3 in feed is negligible and that the vitamin requirements established decades ago "do not take into account the modern genetically superior birds with increased growth, egg production and improved feed efficiency. Vitamin intake per unit of output is continually declining. The yearly decline for layers is around 1% per egg produced, while for broilers it has been 0.6-0.8% for body gain (Leeson, 2007)."

Of course our seramas are not bred for egg production, but can suffer instead from inadequate sun exposure. Consumer feed manufacturers probably determine a lower dosage of vitamin D based on expectation that backyard flocks are usually in a run or yard all day.

 

[vasher]

Which supplement are you using? I'd like to have something on hand besides the Poultry Cell, which contains iron (hence why I only use it irregularly).

I did some reading today on vitamin D and chickens and based on those readings, D deficiency can show up as thin shells, no shells, and embryos that die at day 18-19.

Here's a quite long, informative article about D in poultry: http://www.dsm.com/markets/anh/en_US/Compendium/poultry/vitamin_D.html

The author(s) writes that D3 in feed is negligible and that the vitamin requirements established decades ago "do not take into account the modern genetically superior birds with increased growth, egg production and improved feed efficiency. Vitamin intake per unit of output is continually declining. The yearly decline for layers is around 1% per egg produced, while for broilers it has been 0.6-0.8% for body gain (Leeson, 2007)."

Of course our seramas are not bred for egg production, but can suffer instead from inadequate sun exposure. Consumer feed manufacturers probably determine a lower dosage of vitamin D based on expectation that backyard flocks are usually in a run or yard all day.

It's some sort of all-purpose, all animal farm supplement that, near as I can tell, is pretty much a powdered multivitamin like the kind people take. Like this, but a different brand I don't recall: http://www.murdochs.com/shop/durvet-vitamins-electrolytes-concentrate/

That's very interesting about late term embryo death. I have been giving the vitamins, but wonder if that is enough? Though, it was also my first ever hatch, so the number of variables in this is great.

Edit: Oh, and the Sav-A-Chick Electrolytes/Vitamins for all the babies

Guaranteed Analysis:
Salt (min.) 8.0%
Salt (max.) 9.0%
Sodium (min.) 14.0%
Sodium (max.) 14.5%
Potassium (min.) 15.0%
Vitamin A (min.) 1,280,000 IU/lb.
Vitamin D3 (min.) 3,200,000 IU/lb.
Vitamin E (min.) 960 IU/lb.
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) (min.) 2560 mg/lb.
Vitamin B12 (min.) 1.9 mg/lb.