American serama thread!

[formerchickenlass]

It's some sort of all-purpose, all animal farm supplement that, near as I can tell, is pretty much a powdered multivitamin like the kind people take. Like this, but a different brand I don't recall: http://www.murdochs.com/shop/durvet-vitamins-electrolytes-concentrate/

That's very interesting about late term embryo death. I have been giving the vitamins, but wonder if that is enough? Though, it was also my first ever hatch, so the number of variables in this is great.

Edit: Oh, and the Sav-A-Chick Electrolytes/Vitamins for all the babies

Guaranteed Analysis:
Salt (min.) 8.0%
Salt (max.) 9.0%
Sodium (min.) 14.0%
Sodium (max.) 14.5%
Potassium (min.) 15.0%
Vitamin A (min.) 1,280,000 IU/lb.
Vitamin D3 (min.) 3,200,000 IU/lb.
Vitamin E (min.) 960 IU/lb.
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) (min.) 2560 mg/lb.
Vitamin B12 (min.) 1.9 mg/lb.

Thanks for the info.

As for late-term deaths, there are definitely lots of factors that can be at play including incorrect temp/humidity, any nutritional deficiency in breeders, any illness in breeders, stress in breeders, as well as lethal genes. If you can stomach it, you may wish to remove your late term deaths from the shell and examine for any signs of defect (and this is not specific to you, I'm addressing to anyone who experiences them in seramas). Check for malposition, check leg length compared to a healthy hatch mate, check beak for any signs of deformity, etc.

In my own experience, and many others I've talked to, any serama hatch that's 50% or more of fertile (not initially set) eggs is considered a success. I examine all my late death embryos and never see anything out of the ordinary externally. They're nearly always correctly positioned but never pip internally. I've weighed the eggs, both as a whole and individually, to make sure they were on target for proper weight loss, and I still only hatched 50%.

My last hatch was exclusively out of a pair housed indoors this autumn. I collected eggs for 11 days. I set 7 eggs, and added an 8th, freshly laid egg about 12 hours after I began incubation on the rest. I candled first on day 12. The two oldest embryos had terminated prior to the candling. 6 remaining eggs were going strong. All 6 made it to lockdown. 5 hatched. One late death, looked perfect. The non-hatch egg was 7 days old at time of incubation. 4 boys and 1 girl, argh! Abundant rooster problems aside, lol, that was to me the best hatch I could expect for seramas. I have little doubt that had I been able to incubate the older eggs sooner, such as in a rolling hatch, they would've made it to lockdown.

I ran my incubator at 99.8 F, humidity at 50% rh, bumped humidity at start of day 18 (usually bump to around 65%). Vent nearly fully open for adequate ventilation. I use a Brinsea Octagon 20 advance with humidity pump to keep things easy and steady. I clean after every hatch with Brinsea's own incubator disinfectant. At this point in my program, I feel problems are either breeder health/nutrition, including things that affect shell quality, or in some cases bad genetic pairings, or the age of the eggs being varied such that one humidity cannot suit all.

 

[the poppster]

Gorgeous.  Her eye color caught my eye before I even read the post!

Just as a curiosity for everyone who is experienced with Seramas, why are there issues with fertility and/or hatching?  Since it seems to happen with micros a lot or the smaller seramas I assume this is due to size?  Are the reproductive organs unusally small which is one reason these chickens never reach a larger size, sort of like Turner's syndrome in humans?

I believe that some of the breeds that were used for the foundation stock carry some of what are called "lethal genes"...these can cause an embryo to die shortly after it begins to develop...or even for some reason right before it's time to hatch...I have had these things happen...candle the eggs a few days before hatching should begin....everything looks good...the chick responds by peeps to "Baby talk" and you can see it wiggle...you can see the top of its little head just below the air sack...gently returned them to the incubator...and some hatch out normally...others don't even pip...some pip and die...that's with temp, humidity, turning, cleanliness, right...by the book...dates on calendars, the whole nine yards!!! But some just don't make it??? What else can it be?

 

[walkerman78]

2nd day of lockdown which will technically start tonight at 830pm on our 12 serama eggs, which will be day 19 of incubation. My 14 buff orpingtons are in the hatcher with them, they will start day 20 tonight and have 2 pipped already. Worries me in reagrds to the seramas with the buffs starting to pip already, hoping my temps were right. But I feel confident with my 2 digitals, they have been checked for accuracy and temps stayed between 99.2 and 100.4, which I don't feel is a bad fluctuation. Humidity is holding at 61%. Think I am just getting nervous about the little ones and worrying myself to death. I am hopeful for at least a 50% hatch rate from the seramas. Sorry just ranting and rationalizing this morning.

 

[the poppster]

I was studying my "Chicken Health Handbook" and vitamin D and E were mentioned...also soybean protein not being the best type of protein...the necessity of checking carefully the Age of the chick food!! Old or stale feed will not contain the nutrition stated on the label...many of the necessary requirements break down and are no longer available in the feed if it's to old...I'm going to do some more studying!!! Does anyone have a type of commercial feed that they use that seems to work especially well for them?

 

[yellowherb]

I was reading some last night which speculated that Vit D could play a very large role in late DIS or fails around day 18. This was due to commercial feeds having less Vit D than a indoor Serama should have since most poultry are outdoors.

As for Vit E, in caged birds it can play a big role in fertility but I have never looked into the whys of that since my aviaries do not have a fertility problem.

And of course I think most Serama people are aware of the stumpy leg lethal gene.

I know there are some diseases that chickens can carry or have had in the past which now makes them carriers, which can cause late DIS or failures right away. E. coli comes to mind. I had issues with sultan eggs dying all throughout the hatch, I medicated for E. coli (mainly because I came down with it and thought I was doing to die for a week) and after medicating for e. coli I no longer had all the early deaths and am approaching 100% on fertility thru hatch now. Out of my current 40 eggs set for sultans, I pulled one early quitter. I also now use hand sanitizer after holding or touching the chickens... lesson learned! I do not know definitely that my chickens had E. coli but it's suspicious that after medicating I no longer had a egg issue.

I did learn that hatchability often can be traced back to the parent birds having unknown issues, disease or deficiency of nutrients.

 

[vasher]

2nd day of lockdown which will technically start tonight at 830pm on our 12 serama eggs, which will be day 19 of incubation. My 14 buff orpingtons are in the hatcher with them, they will start day 20 tonight and have 2 pipped already. Worries me in reagrds to the seramas with the buffs starting to pip already, hoping my temps were right. But I feel confident with my 2 digitals, they have been checked for accuracy and temps stayed between 99.2 and 100.4, which I don't feel is a bad fluctuation. Humidity is holding at 61%. Think I am just getting nervous about the little ones and worrying myself to death. I am hopeful for at least a 50% hatch rate from the seramas. Sorry just ranting and rationalizing this morning.

Woo, good luck!

It sounds like you have everything dialed in nicely. And you'll know exactly what (if any) tweaks you want to make for later hatches.

I haven't found any feed that contains vitamins besides A and E.

Here's our lot out now:

 

[the poppster]

Thanks for the great advice!!! My mom used to tell me, "Try to learn something new every day!" All I have to do is check into this site! And my day is complete, in the learning part...the dishes are a whole different story...hate doing dishes...Wooo...where did that come from??? Silly brain!! Always wondering off on a different tangent...like a beagle dog that slipped its chain!!! See!! Just like that!!!

 

[walkerman78]

Woo, good luck! It sounds like you have everything dialed in nicely. And you'll know exactly what (if any) tweaks you want to make for later hatches. I haven't found any feed that contains vitamins besides A and E. Here's our lot out now:

I have read some hatch in 19 days some 21. Do you think that locking them down too early would hurt anything? That is my fear now that they may not hatch until day 21 which would mean 4 days in lockdown instead of 3. Surely one extra day won't make that big of a difference.

 

[vasher]

I have read some hatch in 19 days some 21. Do you think that locking them down too early would hurt anything? That is my fear now that they may not hatch until day 21 which would mean 4 days in lockdown instead of 3. Surely one extra day won't make that big of a difference.

Mine pipped on the morning of 19, then took their sweet time doing anything until hatching on 20. But I haven't hatched any other Serama besides this batch.

It's my understanding that eggs don't need turning past the second week, so you could definitely remove the turner (if you have one) and wait and keep vigilant for any early movement/noises before increasing the humidity.

 

[meltel]

today is day 21. Out of 30 eggs that made it to day 18, 5 have hatched and 2 more are on their way. I installed all new daylight LED lights for them and am trying a few new tricks with the next batch. I am almost glad they took longer than normal to hatch as these chicks pipped and zipped overnight and were much more lively right out of the bator. Will update more in a couple days