An effort to raise healthy birds is required

[JacinLarkwell]

Go to a swap meet and you can tell which sellers keep their poultry locked up with commercial feed and others who free range or have large grass covered fenced in runs. A large area to forage or even a few hours a day free ranging with varietal feed is the key to a healthy flock. My roo struts the property with his flock and chicks looking for insects, frogs, and plants. View attachment 3547635

Just curious how you can tell the difference? I keep birds in both styles and they appear the same in terms of looks and attitudes.

 

[Shadrach]

I notice the word “decent” added in there. But I still disagree that it’s the bare minimum.

Adding to the list you would include exercise and a rooster?? And then where would the list be in your opinion with those 2 added? No longer the bare minimum I would presume.

Fortunately we have a guide for the bare minimum when it comes to keeping chickens. This guide was produced for the commercial sector and as many would agree, one of the points of keeping chickens as an individual is to provide a more humane and healthier environment for the creatures that produce the food we eat.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...f-practice-welfare-of-laying-hens-pullets.pdf

Here in the UK if one wants to ensure the chicken products one buys at the shops meets what many agree is an acceptable standard, that standard here is Pasture Raised.
Here's one example.

https://www.yorkshirepasturepoultry.co.uk/

and another.

I think it's fair to say that if one can't meet these standards then ones keeping conditions are worse than the Pasture Raised standard and the arguement for backyard chicken keeping based on the welfare of the chickens and concerns about their health in conditions less than this are untenable.

Taking an image from my collection, a not unfair example of what coop and run chicken keeping looks like in the real world that complies with the 10 square foot per chicken in the run rule so often quoted one might be left wondering which keeping conditions provide the better standard.

One of the things that the DEFRA guide emphasize is for the chicken to be able to carry out it's natural behaviour. What in your opnion is the most natural behaviour for any specie? Surely close to, or at the top of the list, must be to mate and reproduce. That is after all what we are here for. For that, one is going to need both sexes. There is nothing natural about putting eggs in an incubator and having humans rear chicks in cages.

So, yes, having a rooster and allowing chickens to breed and excersise unconfined would in my view be a step up in health and welfare from a contained single sex group confined to a coop and run.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I think confinement in some places is the better choice. I have 4, probably 6 birds that would not last a season outside, probably not even a night due to flock dynamics, physical handicaps or in one case, just sheer lack of brain cells

Certain people might say that it's my fault for that because they're 'not good enough' to survive in their ideal world, but I don't agree with that. Those birds in particular are either pets or ones that it has become my duty to care for especially because of their short comings.

They are far safer staying in their pens either all the time (the flock dynamics and the dumb one) or at night (the handicapped ones) than being left on their own to almost be guaranteed dying by a predator

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I think confinement in some places is the better choice. I have 4, probably 6 birds that would not last a season outside, probably not even a night due to flock dynamics, physical handicaps or in one case, just sheer lack of brain cells

Certain people might say that it's my fault for that because they're 'not good enough' to survive in their ideal world, but I don't agree with that. Those birds in particular are either pets or ones that it has become my duty to care for especially because of their short comings.

They are far safer staying in their pens either all the time (the flock dynamics and the dumb one) or at night (the handicapped ones) than being left on their own to almost be guaranteed dying by a predator

I would never say someone is doing wrong by choosing to have chickens as pets and raising them accordingly. My pushback is only against the notion that no modern domestic chickens can take care of themselves. To use a dog analogy, some chickens are lap dogs, and other chickens are northern sled dogs. You wouldn’t expect a lap dog to pull a sled in sub zero temperatures and subside off of small bits of raw frozen meat and what they scavange. But there are dogs that can do it. The world is a better place because both kinds of dogs exist.

In the chicken world, people forgot about the sled dog chickens and the conventional wisdom in the backyard chicken and homesteading communities is that all chickens are like lap dogs. I’m militantly refuting the notion that tough, self sufficient, chickens don’t exist. I’m not advocating that all chickens ought to be that way.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I would never say someone is doing wrong by choosing to have chickens as pets and raising them accordingly. My pushback is only against the notion that no modern domestic chickens can take care of themselves. To use a dog analogy, some chickens are lap dogs, and other chickens are northern sled dogs. You wouldn’t expect a lap dog to pull a sled in sub zero temperatures and subside off of small bits of raw frozen meat and what they scavange. But there are dogs that can do it. The world is a better place because both kinds of dogs exist.

In the chicken world, people forgot about the sled dog chickens and the conventional wisdom in the backyard chicken and homesteading communities is that all chickens are like lap dogs. I’m militantly refuting the notion that tough, self sufficient, chickens don’t exist. I’m not advocating that all chickens ought to be that way.

Oh yeah, no. There are plenty of modern age chickens that do just fine being left to avoid predators themselves. Nearly all of my birds (excluding my ducks and the ones that need to stay confined) would have a fair chance most of the year I believe, so long as I made sure not to skimp on predator control. Even two or three of my silkies could be expected to do okay. Until winter at least, when there would be very heavy losses without intervention on my end.

But just as some would likely do fine, others wouldn't. Unfortunately some birds are not genetically sound (my silkie rooster rushes to mind with his disturbing lack of intelligence), and some have issues such as age (I have two males in a pen permanently because one is 10 and the other is around that age, as well as handicapped from the past winters) or handicaps either from past winters or other injuries such as blindness. Normally nature would weed out those ones because they aren't fit to continue reproducing (though my blind hen already can't reproduce either way), but I just find it unfair that they have survived so much that I owe it to them to make it more comforting and safe than just expecting them to figure it all out under risk of death.

 

[Apis mellifera]

Just curious how you can tell the difference? I keep birds in both styles and they appear the same in terms of looks and attitudes.

Im not sure how many birds you have per sq. ft. so it my not be an issue for you or the OP. In my experience the more birds in a flock the harder it is to keep them healthy in a small area no matter how much apple cider vinegar, oyster shell, brand of feed, etc. you give them. The OP wanted to discuss how to best treat your flock to keep them healthy and lots of space with green grass and plants with a variety of forage is #1. Honestly I dont think its hard to keep a healthy flock. There are symptoms you can look for to help you learn the difference between healthy chickens and chickens with poor health. Low fertility, low egg production, low hatch percentage, thin looking, scaly legs, pasty butt, bald spots, extreme molting, comb and feather color is off or dull, labored breathing with discharge from the nostrils just to name a few. I dont allow my flock to just be free all the time and be exposed to predators. Just like all domestic animals they need care. My flock gets locked up at night and are not loose all day. The breed also plays a large role in health, some breeds are not bred to be hardy.

 

[Merrykh]

I think confinement in some places is the better choice. I have 4, probably 6 birds that would not last a season outside, probably not even a night due to flock dynamics, physical handicaps or in one case, just sheer lack of brain cells

Certain people might say that it's my fault for that because they're 'not good enough' to survive in their ideal world, but I don't agree with that. Those birds in particular are either pets or ones that it has become my duty to care for especially because of their short comings.

They are far safer staying in their pens either all the time (the flock dynamics and the dumb one) or at night (the handicapped ones) than being left on their own to almost be guaranteed dying by a predator

I have my first handicapped hen from the farm supply that is now 2 months old and she struggles with walking but still does some. She experienced splayed leg at about a week old, took 3-4 weeks to get that “corrected”, then perosis on one leg a week later!! My first time seeing and dealing with these problems. I tried everything but the leg ended up fusing in a bizarre twist. I just couldn’t cull her. Now her challenge comes with getting up the ramp into the coop at night or me setting up a nesting box on the ground with a tiny bit of a slant to a ramp to get over the lip or a little berm. I just feel badly for her as she won’t be able to scratch around or hang with the other hens up in the coop, and certainly not perch on a roosting bar. Do you have any input for me since you have handicapped hens, too? Thank you!

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I have my first handicapped hen from the farm supply that is now 2 months old and she struggles with walking but still does some. She experienced splayed leg at about a week old, took 3-4 weeks to get that “corrected”, then perosis on one leg a week later!! My first time seeing and dealing with these problems. I tried everything but the leg ended up fusing in a bizarre twist. I just couldn’t cull her. Now her challenge comes with getting up the ramp into the coop at night or me setting up a nesting box on the ground with a tiny bit of a slant to a ramp to get over the lip or a little berm. I just feel badly for her as she won’t be able to scratch around or hang with the other hens up in the coop, and certainly not perch on a roosting bar. Do you have any input for me since you have handicapped hens, too? Thank you!

Does she still walk and associate with the flock? Or does she self isolate?

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

I have my first handicapped hen from the farm supply that is now 2 months old and she struggles with walking but still does some. She experienced splayed leg at about a week old, took 3-4 weeks to get that “corrected”, then perosis on one leg a week later!! My first time seeing and dealing with these problems. I tried everything but the leg ended up fusing in a bizarre twist. I just couldn’t cull her. Now her challenge comes with getting up the ramp into the coop at night or me setting up a nesting box on the ground with a tiny bit of a slant to a ramp to get over the lip or a little berm. I just feel badly for her as she won’t be able to scratch around or hang with the other hens up in the coop, and certainly not perch on a roosting bar. Do you have any input for me since you have handicapped hens, too? Thank you!

I would check out this thread:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/anyone-manage-leg-deformity-long-term.1530681/

 

[jeffp757]

My three Barnevelders spend most days free ranging in a fenced off portion of the yard about 2500 sq ft of mixed grass, small trees, pile of flax and cabbage tree leaves & decimated brocolli patch. Otherwise they are in their completely sparrow-proofed 8X12 ft pen with branches to perch on, lean-to shelter from rain/sun, old recycling bin turned into covered dust bath (sand, wood ashes & a bit of powdered sulphur). Their coop is a compact pre-fab affair made in Australia that has two lovely next boxes and a dry secure perching area. There's a removable metal tray below the perching area that I keep lightly covered with pine shavings. Super easy to clean out the poo piles each day and I rarely pull the tray out for any further cleaning. The provided perches don't seem high enough above the adjacent nest boxes, so I installed a 1.5-2" diameter tree bough about 5" higher which most nights all three of them are very happy to be on.

I feed a very popular, reputable NZ layer pellet that is 17% protein. I don't adhere to the idea all layer pellets are crap, but some feed mills probably do cut corners. I do believe it may not always be everything the birds want/need. I mix up roughly equal amounts of a mash of these pellets with protein powder made from dried grasshoppers and meat/bone meal. I estimate fine moist mash I make in the food processor (to my wife's dismay) to be 30-35% protein. I keep it refrigerated after I make a batch that usually lasts for 3-4 weeks. They get some of that in a small stainless cup most days and eat some ad lib. Another hanging cup in the coop always has oystershell/crushed eggshells in it. They all peck at that but don't eat a lot of it. The theory I work on is their bodies tell them when they want more protein than commercial feed, bugs & vegetation they eat while free ranging. Same with calcium. The layer mix is the mainstay of what they eat and they take care of the rest with what they get free ranging, my protein suppliment, or soluable calcium grit mix. Plus some treats. Bonding time is spent trying to find mealworm/pupae/beetles I place on perches or distribute by hand. Lots of fun with up close and personal interactions. They each get 3-5 mealworms daily out of this. I maintain a mealworm colony for these treats. Lately I have had a few pumpkins given to me by a friend who grew too many (winter here in NZ). The birds love that! I'll nail a small wedge of it to a log next to the dust bath and they destroy it totally in the course of a day.

I'll do a fecal float every now and then to be sure no worms. So far so good, which I attribute partly to no wild birds getting into their pen, sharing their feeding areas. I tie fresh clumps of lavender & rosemary to the undersides of the perching bough every now and then to make the coop extra unfriendly to mites/lice & it smells good to me. Yet I think the sand/ashe/sulpher dust bathing probably keeps ectoparasites away by itself.

They seem to be as happy and healthy as chickens can be. Even now midwinter 2/3 are putting out a lovely tasty egg 3 days out of 4.