Angel Wing or just plain growing up?

[destinduck]

let him try to play through a week if not better tape him, regardless of what you heard on what causes angelwing I would cut down on your protien in your bagged food. i do not know if you supplement your ducks with greens,grass,peas,etc. but this is 100% fact If you have them in a bare pen with no grass or other greenery and you give them high protien ration you will get some angelwing in some of your birds. FACT. BUT if you are able to free range them or give them other veggies you may or may not get it with high protien. so yes high protien does cause angelwing! If you dont want to wait a week with low protien food go ahead and tape him now Good Luck

 

[Wifezilla]

Fact? No, theory. One of 2. But I do agree with you 100% on the greens. Mine get a "salad" every morning. Lettuce ends and pieces, celery tops or other kitchen scraps, wild purslane, cabbage or other green thinnings from the garden, white dutch clover (I planted a patch just for the ducks), duckweed from the pond, tender shoots from the grape vines, peas and other presents from the neighbor...basically whatever is available. They go crazy for it and it is good for them too.

 

[destinduck]

yes fact if you dont believe do the experiment! plus you definitely dont get angel wing with lower protien so why, tell me why would you even take the chance with high protien when you can use low protien and NEVER even worry about it wheter you think you are right or not

 

[ScaredOfShadows]

low protien diets if you feed them poor foods you will STILL get angel wing! Ducks need a good rich protien diet - they eat alot of protien in the wild - even with a low protien feed if they free range in a rich environment and are given salad greens - they'll be getting a load of protein.

I completely agree on it being a lack of NUTRITION and not a surplus of protien that does it. i.e. too much duckie junk food at that stage of development.

 

[katharinad]

There you have it, good nutrition, bad nutrition, or bad genes. This is the part we cannot agree on, so lets just agree on fixing it. Probably not possible either.

You basically have to jump in and learn. It's not bad at all, and you learn as you go. Simply follow the description I've given you. Here is a picture. I wish I had made a video with directions.

He had an injury that looked like angel wing while growing up. He jumped out of the kiddie pool the wrong way and landed on his wing tip. Nothing was broken, but he could not hold it tight and it stood out. I wrapped him for 4 days and he was healed. As stated before you need to wrap the wing into the folded position and then wrap the wing to the body going right above the feet and one more time higher. My picture was not wrapped high enough and he managed to pull his wings up and out later in the day. I basically took it off and did a better job the next day. This is what I mean you learn as you go. I did not use any sticky tapes at all, and he was happy each evening when it came off in 2 seconds.

 

[Smartie_Pants]

I am so glad I read this post, because I went outside yesterday only to find that one of my juvenile male muscovy's wings now look like this:

GRRR! Both wings look like that. Beginnings of Angel wing?

For the first month of their life, they were feed a duckling starter that had adequate protein. When they moved out with the adult ducks once they were fully feathered, they switched to a 50/50 mix of layer crumbles and scratch grains. They free range from sun up until nightfall, and I close the gates before I go to bed. The neigbors pour scraps out for them all the time, so they get that too. In fact, I think there is half a watermelon out there right now for them. They also get the kitchen scraps we have. So you can see they have access to a variety of things. What do I need to do to fix him? People are saying lower protein, some are saying higher. Some are saying tape, some are saying wait. Which is it? I have had ducks for over 5 years, and I have had well over 100 ducks in that time. Never had a nutritional problem before.

 

[Wifezilla]

if you dont believe do the experiment!

I have. I feed my ducks 28% protein feed from hatching on. No angel wing. I have 3 ducks from a second generation of ducks fed high protein feed. No angel wing. If high protein caused angel wing my ducks should have the worst cases ever.

So either....

1) high protein does not cause angel wing
2) ducks must have a genetic vulnerability in order to get angel wing
3) the type and not the amount of protein could be causing angel wing (game bird feed often contains at least some animal protein where as lower protein feeds contain all vegetable protein)
4) my ducks are freaks
5) even small amounts of fresh greens daily protect against angel wing

My experiment will continue next spring when my 2010 hens start hatching eggs. At this point I am tempted to up the protein even higher to try and see if I can intentionally induce angel wing. Of course, if my theory is right and it is the carbohydrates that are causing this deformity, I wont be able to make it happen even if I gave them Taste of the Wild 38% protein cat food instead of duck food.​

 

[destinduck]

you just got thru saying yours get a salad every day ,

second generation also good genes) that may not mater but did those 3 ducks get also get greens ?see what im saying yet ?

Im happy your birds dont have angelwing .

so I agree with 2 and 5. read my previous post again.

I have been raising ducks for over 10 yrs hundreds of babies. MOSTly it is the domestic breeds that will incur angelwing so that is why I included 2. Im positive that you have not had angel wing with the 28% protien food because (1 good genes,(2 They ALWAYS have access to greens.grass etc. which in turn cuts way into the high protien feed. For people that are able to free range their birds or supplement plenty of greens you might get away with that high protien. On the other hand most people have their ducks in cages and pens when growing up that have no access to any food other than what the keeper provides them with. Which is commecial ration out of a bag which starts out high protien and MUST be reduced as the birds start to feather out or the chance of angelwing greatly increases. THE REASON I am so concerned with this is because I do not want first time or novice duck raisers to have to even deal with this issue and they will if fed high protien thru adulthood !

Again why,why would you tell people to use a 28% protien food thru growout on, plus the fact these people cant find the brand that you are useing more than likely(thats a whole nother can of worms)BUT NOBODY has adownside of low protien food when feathering out.

Why take the chance?YOUR CHOICE PEOPLE. ALSO READ EVERYBODYS POST on here from the beginning .THEN you all can decide. I stand by this and all previous post.

 

[Wifezilla]

BUT NOBODY has adownside of low protien food when feathering out.

There IS a downside. The health and breeding quality of your birds. If you are just raising them to slaughter weight, no problem. But if you are breeding and plan on keeping your birds alive for a nice long life, it is a big problem.

You also missed the part where my ducks eat worms and grubs (high protein), minnows (high protein), duckweed (high protein) and get a morning snack of 38% PROTEIN CAT FOOD. Their run is not grass (they ate that long ago) it is straw. There is that one bowl in the morning with salad in it and then bits and pieces of greens as available.

And I did read the whole thread. This is not the first time this has been discussed either. The reducing the protein percentage sometimes works and sometimes it doesn't. Again this is evidence that maybe protein isn't the problem. I have been studying human nutrition and endocrinology for the past 3 years. This study has led from people related issues to animal related issues due to the use of animal studies. inheriting an obese cat, and owning ducks and quail. It is pretty fascinating. The main lesson I have gotten out of my research is that most problems that are blamed on proteins (like kidney problems in people) or natural saturated fats (obesity, diabetes, etc...) are actually problems caused by carbohydrates. Since protein is used to build bone and muscle, cutting protein when you have bones and muscles weakened to the point they don't grow correctly never made sense to me.

Plus animals and people tend to eat protein to the level their body needs. Animals who over eat often have poor quality food and must eat more to get their protein requirements fulfilled. Great if you are an animal food manufacturer. Not so great if you are a consumer trying to raise healthy animals. People will then cut portions to make their animal thinner, and it will work if you cut the food down low enough...but they end up being skinny on the outside and fat on the inside. Unhealthy fat is still packed around their internal organs. Eventually you see liver damage, and in the cases of dogs and cats, obesity, type 2 diabetes and cancer.

In the case of dog and cat food (and I strongly suspect in the case of poultry feed) you have a problem with the quality of protein (plant instead of animal) and the high carbohydrate fillers added to the protein. Not the percentage of protein in and of itself.​

 

[destinduck]

again and again wifezilla , you did not read my post !When feathering out ONLY!, what part of that do you not understand,

saw your website This forum is about ducks and only ducks,not cats, not quail ,not people,not dog and cat food .I DIDNT miss any part.Feed them minnows or catfood WHEN THEY ARE ADULTS! (mater of fact you are supposed to increase the protien during breeding season) I also know not first time discussed ,wont be last . again people you heard both sides make your choice