So your saying that you cant let your dogs chew a bone in the same room together...?
--They need to be separated, just as redyre said above. Even a person with two equally sized adult dogs who 'never do anything bad and are terribly sweet' will fairly often, boil over when food and posessions are involved. So much more so with a pup or a small dog around larger adults....
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They have to be crated?
--Not necessarily crated, but they need to be separated. Really.
Thats not good for me. I dont want to have to live that way..
--You decided to get a puppy when you have large adult unrelated dogs, you may not want to live that way, but you created the situation, and the situation will eventually lead to tragedy, agree with redyre. Maybe not today, not tomorrow, but you've seen quite enough here of 'I can't believe my baby doll Precious killed....my other beloved little Precious' to know that it happens, and it happens frequently.
I dont do that here..
--Then you are going to put large unrelated dogs together with a pup, eventually, this will lead to disaster.
my adult dogs havent had crates since they were pups. No room in my house for 2 HUGE crates for saint bernards
--There is always room enough for things you want and feel are necessary. Aside from that, as was said, you don't necessarily need to use crates. You can separate the dogs with a sturdy immovable gate or a closed door is fine.
....plus they dont need them here. They dont chew on things..or trample strangers or run out the door... they listen very well.
--You aren't getting it, you need to separate the adult from the pup. You posted videos and asked worridly if this is safe....you are the one with the adult male that is almost ten times the size of your cute little fluffy puppy. You're not even saying 'No' when he does this, you do nothing, you don't even correct the adult. What do you really THINK is going to happen in this situation?
--If you want your dogs to all be safe, you need to be the pack leader, not your adult male. He does not get to DECIDE things like who gets woofed at. It WILL escalate. He gets taken down big time hard, it is not his business to run the pack, it's yours. And the way you PROVE you are in charge is by separating him from the pup when he has treasures, treats and food.
My adults have no fights over food or toys or bones..nothing.
--Lucky you, but it should read 'not so far'. You changed everything when you got that puppy. It's a whole new ball game every time a new dog comes in the house. As I said, it may not be today, it may not be tomorrow, but it will happen.
And they wernt even pups together..one is a year older.
--So you haven't ever had a puppy with your adult dogs before, and you really have no grounds to predict what your adults will do so confidently.
I respect nature..but the pup has to learn his place in the pack..that wont happen if i have to crate my adults to eat a bone.
--I think you are ignoring nature because doing so would mean separating your adult dogs from your pup and you don't feel like doing that.
Isnt it natural for a pup to be in a dog pack? How does that work?
--Why does everyone here use 'the wild' as their justification for what they do? You aren't IN the wild. You've set up a highly unnatural, abnormal situation that a single pup in the wild would RARELY OR NEVER survive.
--Here is how it works. In the wild, the mother is there, and if an adult male comes within twelve or fifteen feet of her pup, she rises up like an enraged lion and she rips into him, or he will eat her pups. if the mother is NOT there, the male eats her pups. THAT'S how it works 'in the wild'. I don't think you want to come in and find 'nature' in your living room.
But yes..i hear what you are saying... it CAN be a dangerous situation sometimes... thats why i made this thread.
--AND posted videos of what looks like a pot about to boil over. But it sounds like you feel it just could never happen to you. Why? It happens to a great many people, many of them here, all very well meaning people. How many threads have there been since I got here of 'oh how could this terrible thing have happened?' And notice, it almost always involves a bone or chew toy, and a big dog, and a small or younger dog. There is a real definite pattern there.
But i also know that adults dont usually "attack" pups...
--Of course they do. I've been seeing and hearing about it since the very first day I was around a dog. The first time I went into a vet's office with my first pet, a person brought in a limp, chewed up pup their older 'Sweatheart' had attacked and killed. Why? The older dog had a bone. They attack them, they kill them, they eat them. Agitate the mother enough, SHE'LL eat them.
they just teach them their place int he pack...
--You cannot possible compare the unnatural environment of a home to nature. Of course, pups ARE killed 'in nature' and quite often. Some years, NO pups survive.
--Aside from that, people's homes are extremely unnatural situations where dogs that would NEVER be together in nature in the same grouping, are crowded together into a tiny space where they can't get away from each other, and where there is no leader that can act quick enough to stop any sort of challenge or fight, nor one that sees the warning signs and quashes it before it boils over.
--That said, I would never give the impression that the 'wild' is not ALSO chaotic. It is. Pups are killed regularly in the wild. They are attacked frequently by adults. Who ever said animals lived in some kind of idyllic perfect world where nothing ever goes wrong and all puppies frolick in the sunlight with the little butterflies? It's not like that. It's pretty dang grim, in fact.
I posted to videos to be SURE thats whats going on and not something worse. I figured the dog gurus could tell by Dukes posture what he was doing with the pup... I wanted others opinions on if hes just doing what adults do to pups naturally... or if he really wants to go after the pup.
--He did not go after the pup and bite it today, and you will listen to 'the gurus' who tell you what you want to hear, not the guru's that don't. I think redyre has an immense amount of experience with mixed populations of large working dogs, and I would suggest you respect her advice. At least, I'll pray you do, for the sake of the pup as well as for the sake of the adults. Once it happens once, it is more likely to become a habit, and those dogs won't be too popular when that occurs.
I'm still not exactly sure whats going on with him... but i'll be on high alert when hes with them...thats about all i can do right now.
--That's all you're willing to do? I'll keep just praying for the pup, then. You could very easily, without purchasing a bunch of huge crates or building an addition on your house, put the adult dogs in another room and shut a door. You could put the adults outside and the pups inside. You could tie up the adults to a railing or screw a screw eye in the wall and tie them to it when they have a treat. You could take the pup out for a walk. You won't, please don't say you can't, these are all ridiculously simple things to do that everyone I've ever met who has a mixed population of large working dogs, does without even thinking about it. Those are also things I do without even thinking about it.
--Having dogs of different ages in the house, having an unrelated pup around adult dogs without the mother to protect them, leaving them together with treats and toys and food this is asking for trouble.
--Trust me, you won't be able to react fast enough. It will be finished by the time you reach them, and you're likely to get bitten up yourself trying to pull that pup away from the adult. Your darling never bit you before? Sure, but this is a whole new ballgame.
