Antibiotics for bumblefoot

[sharol]

I, too, have a chicken (actually 2) with bumblefoot. (hanging head in embarrassment) I just didn't check their feet carefully, and when I noticed my EE had swollen feet, it was a shock. I checked the other 5 and found a scab on one foot of one of the Delawares too.

My daughter has a friend on the west coast who took her hen to an avian vet who prescribed clavamax (mox?) for bumblefoot. She also soaked the hen's foot in warm water and picked off the scab when it was soft and squeezed out the nasty stuff. I'm not sure if she bandaged it or not, but I would suppose she would. My local vet is giving me a prescription for the stuff today and I'm going to use Tricide Neo when it gets here the end of the week. In the meantime I have been using a spray (Vetericyn) on the affected feet.

My vet said to clean the feet thoroughly with Dawn or an anti-bacterial hand soap before soaking them, too. I'm planning to try to soak Lily (the EE) tonight and see if I can get some of the poison out. My DH will be gone for several days on a business trip, so I won't have any help with her after this evening until Saturday.

I'm off to find the page about wrapping chicken feet. I got vet wrap today and plan to do all this just before bedtime for chickies. (or maybe just after they go to roost. She will have to sleep in the indoor dog coop tonight, I suppose. I wouldn't want her falling off the roost and hurting herself.

 

[cmckinnon]

I have used Tricide Neo on my cochin hen, Muffie, for the past six months. She has a torn tendon on her right foot which causes her to limp and put more weight on the left foot, and now has a tiny pressure sore because of it. The Tricide Neo keeps it from becoming infected. Also, providing a dry place for her (and my 7 other girls to relax during the day) helps keep it clean.

 

[PoultryPedia]

Thanks for sharing about your hen. I hadn't thoughtenough about pressure sores from limping, but will add that to the Bumblefoot info I post on the Poultry Podiatry page I have, so it can help others.

 

[CaliBlueChicken]

If you are not sure if you got all the infection out, wouldn't the penicillin get rid of the rest?

 

[dawg53]

If you are not sure if you got all the infection out, wouldn't the penicillin get rid of the rest?

Warm epsom saltwater soaks for about 20 minutes or so helps draw out the infection. You then have to manipulate the footpad squeezing the heck out it from all sides. You might have use tweezers to do a little digging around, then soak and sqeeze some more.
The problem is that if the staph infection reaches the legbone...game over. The infection quickly spreads throughout their system, then death. You could go ahead and do both, continue working on the footpad and give the penicillin injections.
Then flush with 50/50 water and betadine or water and iodine mixture. Then put iodine on a gauze, top it off with neosporin and put the gauze directly over the hole. Precut strips of duct tape and wrap it up (not tightly) like you would with vetwrap. Duct tape cant be pulled/pecked off and is waterproof, the wound will be protected. Two or three days later remove the duct tape using scissors if necessary. Check the footpad for redness and swelling...there shouldnt be redness and swelling shouldve gone down. If not, start over with resoaking and squeezing all over again. If it looks ok, put on a new gauze with iodine and neosporin as before, wrap it up again with duct tape and leave it on for 3 or 4 days. It should be completely healed by then....maybe the 5th day since you mentioned it was a large scab.

 

[CaliBlueChicken]

Warm epsom saltwater soaks for about 20 minutes or so helps draw out the infection. You then have to manipulate the footpad squeezing the heck out it from all sides. You might have use tweezers to do a little digging around, then soak and sqeeze some more.
The problem is that if the staph infection reaches the legbone...game over. The infection quickly spreads throughout their system, then death. You could go ahead and do both, continue working on the footpad and give the penicillin injections.
Then flush with 50/50 water and betadine or water and iodine mixture. Then put iodine on a gauze, top it off with neosporin and put the gauze directly over the hole. Precut strips of duct tape and wrap it up (not tightly) like you would with vetwrap. Duct tape cant be pulled/pecked off and is waterproof, the wound will be protected. Two or three days later remove the duct tape using scissors if necessary. Check the footpad for redness and swelling...there shouldnt be redness and swelling shouldve gone down. If not, start over with resoaking and squeezing all over again. If it looks ok, put on a new gauze with iodine and neosporin as before, wrap it up again with duct tape and leave it on for 3 or 4 days. It should be completely healed by then....maybe the 5th day since you mentioned it was a large scab.

Thank You Dawg!!!!
Ok, I apologize for all the questions. I have never administered IM Penicillin to a chicken before. He is a large Orpington approx. 7-10lbs or so. How much and how often do I give it to him?
I have to go to the feed store tomorrow and get it.

 

[dawg53]

Here you go, this explains it all. Post 2. Scroll down to "ANTIBIOTICS" then down to "USING PENICILLIN G PROCAINE FOR POULTRY."
You'll see what size syringe and needle you'll need to administer, where to inject, how much penicillin to use and for how long. Good luck.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/352701/how-do-i-administer-a-penicillin-shot-to-a-chicken

 

[CaliBlueChicken]

Here you go, this explains it all. Post 2. Scroll down to "ANTIBIOTICS" then down to "USING PENICILLIN G PROCAINE FOR POULTRY."
You'll see what size syringe and needle you'll need to administer, where to inject, how much penicillin to use and for how long. Good luck.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/352701/how-do-i-administer-a-penicillin-shot-to-a-chicken

Thank you for your continued help! Ok, I am having trouble understanding this part from that post:

"Pen G procaine is given daily for no more than four days. The dosage for poultry or waterfowl (under 10 pounds) is listed as less than 1/4 cc if the Penicillin G Procaine is 300,000 I.U. (which is most often is) for animals from 1-10 kg (each kg = 2 pounds, so 1-20 pounds). The dosage is actually listed as 1ml (cc) per 100 pounds of body weight, but giving 1/10th of a cc would be troublesome and it has a high safety margin."

Do I give 1/4 cc if it is 300, 000 I.U. AND if it is not then I would give 1/10 of a cc.

 

[PoultryPedia]

The dose I know of:

For wounds & Bumblefoot: 1/4 to 1/2 cc daily for 5-7 days subcutaneous or in breast muscle.

This is the amount I have given when using commonly available Procaine Penicillin G. (p.s. That is very astute of you to pay attention to the concentration level of the actual medicine within the solution.) It does indeed have a high safety margin so I wouldn't worry too much about overdosing.

If you see dosage recommendations on the bottle, they are likely for cattle & may not apply the same bodyweight-wise for poultry.

Steps for administering Penicillin injections to a chicken:

1. Remove Penicillin bottle from frig and allow to reach room temperature (Wait ~30 mins.).
2. Attach 16-gauge (which you can usually only find at a feed store or vet clinic) needle to end of syringe, for drawing out medicine.
   • Don't use a thinner needle for this because the large particles in Penicillin can't go through as well.
3. Very important: Shake bottle vigorously 2-4 mins. right before drawing out medicine.
   • Penicillin has large heavy particles that need to be floating so they go into your syringe.
4. Push needle into top of bottle; then turn it upside-down so syringe is below bottle.
5. Pull back the plunger on syringe until medicine reaches mark ~1/8 cc more than amount you want (in case you need extra for back-up in case some gets accidentally spilled out).
6. Turn bottle right-side up and withdraw needle.
7. Hold syringe with needle pointing up, and pull thick needle off the end.
8. To get any air out of the syringe, point the syringe tip up and withdraw the plunger a little to draw all the medicine fully into the syringe; tap the side of the syringe with your finger to cause any bubbles to rise to the tip of the syringe; and depress the plunger until the excess air is pushed out and medicine reaches the tip.
9. On end of syringe, attach thinner 20-gauge "people" needle (from pharmacy) or 22-gauge "livestock" needle (from feed store) for making the injection.
   • Some Penicillin particles may not make it through this smaller needle, but enough will. A larger needle would be more painful & damaging for the small size of a chicken.
   • If particles clog needle & you aren't using a Luer-Lok syringe, backwards pressure of stuck medicine can cause syringe to pop off of needle, so push very firmly when attaching needle to syringe.
10. Give injection, following instructions in "Give Injection" section on Poultry Podiatry page.
    • Giving intramuscularly will get medicine circulating in system soonest and is recommended for Penicillin. Alternatively, you can choose to give subcutaneously. Don't give in vein.
      • Intramuscular Penicillin injections sting a lot for people, cats, and some other animals, but do not seem to for chickens, though they may cause soreness.
    • If particles do clog needle & stop it up, you can try the following:

1. Have a second person push harder on the plunger; while you keep gently holding up the small pinch of skin & holding the syringe steady so it doesn't slide into the bird too far.
2. Fill an extra syringe with water & have it sitting in an empty glass close by, ready for handling any problems. If a needle clogs, withdraw it from the bird & pull the needle off the end of the medicine-filled syringe. Attach the clogged needle firmly onto the end of the water-filled syringe. Squirt water out the needle into the glass until blockage is cleared (Hold the base of the needle tight against the syringe while you squirt so water pressure doesn't pop needle off syringe.)
   Switch the needle back onto the medicine-filled syringe & push plunger just until water is cleared out of the needle & medicine is starting to dribble out.
   * If when needle clogged a significant amount of medicine got squirted externally, use the large needle to draw more medicine from the bottle into the medicine-filled syringe and then re-attach the injection needle.
3. Withdraw the needle out of the chicken, pull & push plunger back & forth a little to dislodge particles. Then push it forward enough to see if medicine dribbles out & it might now smoothly dispense medicine.
   • Caution: This method often does not work & the same big particle will clog the needle again.

1. • • Then re-inject the needle into the chicken in a different location and give the rest of the medicine.

There are also more detailed tips on Penicillin injections and giving injections in general to birds on the 'Poultry Podiatry' page on the website linked in my sig below.

 

[CaliBlueChicken]

The dose I know of:

For wounds & Bumblefoot: 1/4 to 1/2 cc daily for 5-7 days subcutaneous or in breast muscle.

This is the amount I have given when using commonly available Procaine Penicillin G. (p.s. That is very astute of you to pay attention to the concentration level of the actual medicine within the solution.) It does indeed have a high safety margin so I wouldn't worry too much about overdosing.

If you see dosage recommendations on the bottle, they are likely for cattle & may not apply the same bodyweight-wise for poultry.

Steps for administering Penicillin injections to a chicken:

1. Remove Penicillin bottle from frig and allow to reach room temperature (Wait ~30 mins.).
2. Attach 16-gauge (which you can usually only find at a feed store or vet clinic) needle to end of syringe, for drawing out medicine.
   • Don't use a thinner needle for this because the large particles in Penicillin can't go through as well.
     
3. Very important: Shake bottle vigorously 2-4 mins. right before drawing out medicine.
   • Penicillin has large heavy particles that need to be floating so they go into your syringe.
4. Push needle into top of bottle; then turn it upside-down so syringe is below bottle.
5. Pull back the plunger on syringe until medicine reaches mark ~1/8 cc more than amount you want (in case you need extra for back-up in case some gets accidentally spilled out).
6. Turn bottle right-side up and withdraw needle.
7. Hold syringe with needle pointing up, and pull thick needle off the end.
8. On end of syringe, attach thinner 20-gauge "people" needle (from pharmacy) or 22-gauge "livestock" needle (from feed store) for making the injection.
   • Some Penicillin particles may not make it through this smaller needle, but enough will. A larger needle would be too damaging for the small size of a chicken.
   • If particles clog needle & you aren't using a Luer-Lok syringe, backwards pressure of stuck medicine can cause syringe to pop off of needle, so push very firmly when attaching needle to syringe.
     
9. Give injection, following instructions in previous "Give Injection" section.
   • Giving intramuscularly will get medicine circulating in system soonest and is recommended for Penicillin. Alternatively, you can choose to give subcutaneously. Don't give in vein.
     
     • Intramuscular Penicillin injections sting a lot for people, cats, and some other animals, but do not seem to for chickens, though they may cause soreness.
   • If particles do clog needle & stop it up, withdraw the needle out of the chicken. Then you can try the following:

1. Pull & push plunger back & forth a little to dislodge particles. Then push it forward enough to see if medicine dribbles out & it might now smoothly dispense medicine.
   • Caution: This method often does not work & the same big particle will clog the needle again.
2. Have a second person push harder on the plunger; while you keep gently holding up the small pinch of skin & holding the needle steady so it doesn't slide into the bird too far.
   
3. Fill an extra syringe with water & have it sitting in an empty glass close by, ready for handling any problems. If a needle clogs, withdraw it from the bird & pull the needle off the end of the medicine-filled syringe. Attach the clogged needle firmly onto the end of the water-filled syringe. Squirt water out the needle into the glass until blockage is cleared (Hold the base of the needle tight against the syringe while you squirt so water pressure doesn't pop needle off syringe.)
   Switch the needle back onto the medicine-filled syringe & push plunger just until water is cleared out of the needle & medicine is starting to dribble out.
   * If when needle clogged a significant amount of medicine got squirted externally, use the large medicine to draw more medicine from the bottle into the medicine-filled syringe before re-attaching the injection needle.

1. • • Then re-inject the needle into the chicken in a different location and give the rest of the medicine.

There are also more detailed tips on Penicillin injections and giving injections in general to birds on the 'Poultry Podiatry' page on the website linked in my sig below.

Thank you SpeckledHills for your help. Ok, just making sure not to give him too much. Off to the feed store now and then to administer. I will more than likely do the 1/4 cc just to be on the safe side. He is a bigger bird (7-10lbs) but well, maybe it's the "Momma Chicken" part of me Thanks again! He is up and crowing so not feeling to terrible.