Any Hawaii Folks on BYC?

[triplepurpose]

Interesting, I am also a noob concerning fermented feed. If ours gets wet, it clumps and the next day it has a grey-green haze on it, and by day two, it is full on "Sully" fuzzy from Monsters Inc! Is this what it is supposed to look like? It definitely has an odor about it, but not in a good way. 

How do we do this safely for our chicks?

Yikes! i havent seen monsters, inc, but i think i still get the idea.

FF will def not have mold growth on it if done properly. if it does get a little bit occassionally this becomes a judgement call--ie how much mold, what kind of mold (red being very sketchy, white usually not so bad for example), how adverse u are to wasting feed, etc etc.

The people who frequent the fermented feed thread here on byc are often super helpful with troubleshooting in general.

As for Hawaii-specific tips, please note: i do think that mold is more something to contend with here than in a lot of other places--spores are everywhere, all the time, esp if u live in a the windward wetter area (like us). so therefor i dont think that innoculation is an optional step when doing FF in HI. I always recommend starting with something like ACV (unpasteurized, unfiltered, obviously, and organic prefered) in the mix (u only need a few tablespoons per bucket). Buy the large gallon jugs if you can--waaaay cheaper than the little bottles. ACV has excellent anti mold properties in my experience, prob b/c of the pH in part, but other things can work too. you just need to guide the FF in the specific direction you want it to go with some kind of lactic/acetic acid producing bacteria innoculation. once you get some nice, fairly pleasant smelling sour FF going, you dont have to add ACV every time (you CAN, i just dont find it necessary every time)--you can use some good stuff from the last batch to innoculate the next, and just use it occasionally, or if a batch gets a little odd, you want to start fresh with the next. (if you are having consitent mold issues uou might even try just spritzing the top surface with ACV as well to further discourage spores from growing.) happy, properly soured mature FF is itself unlikely to host mold.

the spontaneous fermentation approach that seems to work for people elsewhere is just a craps shoot in HI and a good way ti waste feed, b/c often the molds and other undesireables will often win out here.

(I also like to make FF very stiff, not runny or sloppy. i use only enough water to make it like miso paste or pudding and pack it down a bit to force out air).

the thing we really like about FF is it lets is mix in other things to offset the purchased feeds without altering the feeding process, and without needing to refridgerate things like cooked ulu or cassava or fruits separately b/c the fermentation process precludes spoilage for the time it taked us to use up the batch.

sounds more complicated than it really is--people often get nervous about "bacteria" and "fermentation" but its not really that scary, and its well worth doing IMO, esp with what we have to pay for OG feed in HI! just do a bit of research first--theres plenty info here on byc and elsewhere to glean from.

hope that helps tho...

gl!

 

[Brada Puhi]

Aloha kākou,

FF is very easy and you should not be afraid to try, especially if you get your feed wet. You just have to have lots of water and stir often(4x per day). Iʻve never had a bad batch. Iʻve never used ACV but I have used probiotic pills before when I used up all of the last batch and need a quick innoculation. But really, you donʻt need anything but feed and ample water and lots of stirring.

It does seem to last longer than dry feed. But they do seem to lay less eggs. But make less flies, especially if you put DE every once a while.


Triple purpose, have you switch back to dry feed a few times to monitor the change in egg production? Interested to know.

Aloha, Puhi

 

[triplepurpose]

I have not tried to convert between FF and straight dry feed for the purpose of direct controlled comparison, or done side-by-side trials. However, i came into FF in a rather roundabout way in the first place, which complicates things. I was trying to do something like the Korean Natural Farming approach for a while, which evolved into adding in cooked starches like cassava, kalo, ulu, xanthosoma sagittifolium, etc, sometimes stale breadstuffs amd other things too--also lots of cull or overripe bananas, which we grow plenty of. Then i started doing a wetter, more FF approach with innoculation. I did notice that both laying and especially egg QUALITY increased strikingly with the adoption of deliberate, moist-state fermentation process to the feed-starches mix (this makes sense as fermentation has been demonstrated to increase protein levels in starches as well as increase digestibility--you need look no further than poi for an example of this). With a properly culled, healthy flock we can expect about half to 3/4 as many eggs as hens during the spring and summer, with less of course during the darkest months--which seems to me perfectly acceptable, and does compare well with others i know feeding dry feed and our past exp with dry feed.

We also feed greens daily, scraps, azolla, and they have a compost run to feed in. i believe strongly in providing green feed daily.

I also sounds like your FF process, Brada Puhi may be pretty different from what we are doing, so there is the possibility we are comparing apples and oranges to some extent maybe too(?) example, we never stir--tho i can see how this might be useful to prevent mold growth until spontaneous fermentation becomes established.

Anyway though, my primary goal all along has been to make feed costs more affordable for our small and multi- purpose flock, not maximizing egg production per se. our current system allows us to spend maybe half (guestimated) what we would if we fed dry mix as the sole ration, so even if using it caused a drop in laying of 30 percent, say, we would still be ahead, so to speak--in terms of conversion of purchased inputs to eggs. of course this isnt all due to ff but a multitude of strategies we employ to minimized purchased feed...

im not sure why people would find that FF would reduce egg production, unless there was a problem with quality or how it was accepted by the birds, but both of these should be fixable. also plenty of people, it seems, never have that problem and if anything see better laying on FF...

Also, one may be interested in things like overall health of the flock (including immunity), quality and nutritional value of the eggs laid, meat quality, among other variables that are not captured by considering lay rates alone, and which FF may also influence (and, anecdotal evidence suggests, positively).

Not trying to sound critical or like an FF shill, just suggesting it can be instructive to broaden the perspective when evaluating the efficacy of FF!

its fun talkkng about this with other HI folks!

Aloha!

 

[Brada Puhi]

Aloha Triplepurpose,

Mahalo nui for your insights and experiences.

I have fed FF for about 3-4 years, off and on. I did it exclusively for 2 full years. I did make the change during the summer, which is when egg production drops, so that might have been another variable in the mix. I have also changed brands during one of the switches.

One bag lasts me 3 days(6 feedings) when feeding dry and 3 1/2 days(7 feedings) when feeding wet. So itʻs still just a slight benefit in that matter. I do understand that the FF process breaks down the feed more making the nutrients more readily available to the digestive system. I just am finding that in practice(and without drinking the Kool-Aid) that the benefits may not be as glorious as we first thought.

I like to feed my girls California grass, but itʻs only good when my boy weed whacks and it rains. They love the new shoots.

I know that they say the Kham(?) is harmless but Iʻve never liked it.

My girls donʻt like the feed when it is fermented more than 4 days.

I think that we both are fostering the growth of lactic acid bacteria as the main microorganism in our feed.


My data is more anectdotal than quantitative.

Gotta go,

Aloha, Puhi

 

[triplepurpose]

Well, you know how it is--when people get really excited about something, sometimes benefits do get exaggerated (like I wrote, I have rarely fed straight FF for any period, because we cut it with other things to save feed further, so I don't have the figures that you do to compare). But of course that doesn't mean that there isn't a little something to it in the first place. Personally, my attitude toward FF these days is less "OMG hallelujah" and more "every little bit helps." For example, if, like you say, you can get an extra day's worth of feed out of each bag of feed each week, then your saving sometime like almost 1.3 bags of feed each month, or around 52 bags of feed a year (if my hasty, rough math is accurate). According to my local prices, if the feed is da kine organic that could be over $1500 dollars saved each year, or maybe a grand for the "conventional" (if you can call novelties like genetic engineering and heavy pesticide/herbicide use "conventional", which is a big stretch of the word's original meaning, haha). I don't know about you, but I could do a lot with an extra thousand plus dollars! It may not be "worth it" for everybody, but to some people that's enough to make it a valuable edition to their quiver of feed- and cost-saving strategies, for sure--especially considering it need not take a whole lot of extra work or trouble to do. And that's just looking at feed costs alone: some people report healthier feathers, better immunity, etc. tho this gets into the territory of anecdotal benefits that are harder to prove quantifiably.

Cut it with a little cracked corn or leftover poi or popcorn the kids didn't finish, grow a little azolla in tub, plant some cassava and comfrey, get a worm composting bin, or whatever--and every little bit adds up, ya know? It just depends how important the savings are to you and/or what you have time for projects wise and how involved you wanna get, and the answer's gonna be different for everybody--which is as it should be, really.

Thanks for sharing, BP!

 

[Brada Puhi]

I agree. Less halleluia but useful nevertheless.

Also Black Soldier Fly larvae. I need to try do that again.

Aloha, Puhi

 

[mahealani02]

Aloha SunnysideupGuam!

I buy my organic non-GMO feed from Asagi hatchery. I buy the 50# bag from a company in Modesto California--you can get the layer pellet (my girls prefer this) or the layer crumble. My girls like the feed. I have also tried the Purina organic feed from Kaneohe Farm Supplies (when I am unable to get to Asagi before they close).

Aloha.

L.

 

[SunnySideUpGUAM]

Aloha SunnysideupGuam!

I buy my organic non-GMO feed from Asagi hatchery. I buy the 50# bag from a company in Modesto California--you can get the layer pellet (my girls prefer this) or the layer crumble. My girls like the feed. I have also tried the Purina organic feed from Kaneohe Farm Supplies (when I am unable to get to Asagi before they close).

Aloha.

L.

Cool thanks for the response! im really hoping my girls like the feed too. The last time i tried to switch my girls over to organic feed, they refused to eat it for like 3 days straight and they almost stopped laying after that. Thats why im trying to get some reviews on the feed.

So are you feeding the King Organic feed or the King Freedom feed(nonGMO). The Freedom Feed from King is supposed to be no corn and no soy, and the organic had organic corn and organic soy. Im open to using either, they are both better than land o lakes IMO.

 

[MissionOhana]

I have a question for all the Hawaii people. What material do you guys like best (if any) for the bedding in the coop/run/nesting boxes?

 

[KaitlynRae1]

I use straw. So far it hasn't molded or gotten really gross. I only replace it once a month.