Any one want to join me in waiting for eggs, posting and comparing notes?

Quick question for you, MB. Is it possible that I have been giving them too much protein? Should I restrict that from now on? Their layer feed is 15% but most days they get left over cat food too. Spike of Avatar fame, has become very picky with his food in his old age and we tempt him with a couple of options, so now there is often 1 tablespoon or so for each chicken of cat food, which I put in their breakfast mash. If this might exacerbate a tendency to bumblefoot perhaps I should stop? I did a search but haven't found reference to protein yet under the bumblefoot articles, but I'll try again.

Thanks for your advice!
Katrina
Here is one article I had read SC



Bumblefoot appears in different stages:

  • First Stage - Pink "calluses" appear. These abrasions to the lower surface of the foot feel hard and typically affect both feet. These "calluses" look like small pinkish or reddish areas or shiny patches that can show up on top as well as on the bottom of the feet.
    • They are most often caused by inappropriate perches - such as hard plastic or dowelling perches or rough, sandpaper covered perches - or by perching on the same surfaces for too long.
  • Second Stage - Sores / lesions: As the affected feet have lost their protective scales, bacteria (usually staphylococcus bacteria) on unclean perches or other surfaces the birds come in contact with result in an infection. The sores become redder and more inflamed. At this point, antibiotics are most likely needed, in addition to addressing the initial problem that caused the issue.
  • Third Stage - If the first and second stages aren't addressed, penetration may occur. The sores turn dark blue or black. Severe distortion of the foot and/or toes and permanent damage to the foot or feet occurs. Birds experience pain and discomfort, and they will be seen lifting up their feet to help relieve their discomfort. Birds become severely lame, and surgery (in addition to treating any underlying issues) is usually the only chance fora completely recovery.


Is it "bumble foot"?

  • If only one leg is affected, the bird is more likely to have experienced an injury and/or has a localized infection. (Scroll down to infections for potential treatment options)
  • If the legs appear to be dry and scaly, or the bird has crusty-looking legs, please refer to this webpage for information: Scaly Leg or Scaly Face webpage


Causes & Actions:

Depending on the diagnosis, a vet may recommend changes to a bird's diet or cage setup; prescribe hot soaks or antibiotics, and / or make dietary recommendations. In some instances, surgery may be indicated, especially in cases where severe distortion of the contours of the foot and/or the toes has occurred, as these have the potential of causing considerable damage in the foot.
  • Perches / Surfaces: Unsuitable and unclean perches / standing & walking platforms - such as plastic perches, sharp-cornered perches, rough "pedicure" perches, standard perches with uniform diameter or wire floors - need to be exchanged to instead provide clean and VARIED perching surfaces.
    • Natural perches with different circumferences and textures are preferred. Birds should be encouraged to perch in different places and varying surfaces. This can be achieved by placing food and water dishes in different areas, changing the position of the different perches, etc.
    • Hard or wire flooring should be covered with newspaper, soft towels or some other material to protect the feet, facilitate a more comfortable walking on the floor and speed the healing process.
    • Any surfaces a bird touches should be carefully sanitized and kept clean.
  • Infections: Where some penetration has occurred, infections are likely to occur. Bacteria, including staph, have been identified in some rare cases of bumble foot; in particular, if the wound hasn’ t been noticed and treated before it becomes acute. If the infection is serious enough, antibiotics will be needed - such as erythomycin, penicillin or pipercillin injections, etc. (as described by the vet), in addition to anti-inflammatories and antibiotics topically applied to the feet.

    Before applying any topical antibiotics / treatments, the lesion needs to be thoroughly cleaned. One recommendation involves soaking the affected foot in a shallow dish filled with warm water with Epsom Salt added to it. The recommended strength is about one teaspoon of Epsom Salt mixed in with one gallon of clean, warm drinking water. The Epsom Salt will draw out any toxins. Soaking the foot or feet will soften and remove any scab, which allows the lesion to drain any pus and debris. Finally, flush the cavity with hydrogen peroxide to clean the wound out and destroy any bacteria. Once the wound is clean, apply liberal amounts of an antibiotic ointment as prescribed by the vet (often CEH ointment [Calendula, Echinacea and Hypericum]); and then carefully wrap the foot or feet with gauze to keep the cavity clean and the ointment in place, and prevent the bird from chewing on it. If the "bumblefoot" is in the very severe category, a ball bandage may need to be adhered to the foot. The lesion needs to be cleaned and ointments reapplied twice a day until the feet appear healthy.

    If left untreated, the infection will eventually eat into the bone and travel to other parts of the body. This is a painful condition that can potentially be life threatening.
  • Swelling: Some breeders report success in reducing the swelling by applying hemorrhoid cream to the affected foot. However, the underlying problems still need to be addressed.
  • Nutrition:
Poor quality diets result in malnutrition and obesity. Fatty diets and diets that are high in cholesterol or protein; or diets low in calcium are all associated with bumblefoot conditions.
Vitamin A Deficiency: Some forms of bumble foot are caused by a vitamin A deficiency. Budgerigar, or other birds mostly feeding on seeds, are particularly susceptible to it. Seeds are typically low in vitamin A. This vitamin promotes appetite, digestion, and also increases resistance to infection and to some parasites. The most obvious sign of a vitamin A deficiency is a feather stain above the cere. The staining of the feathers above the nostrils reflects a discharge from the nostrils. Subtle differences may be seen as far as the color intensity of the cere and feathers is concerned - and the overall condition of the plumage. A bird deficient in this vitamin may have pale, rough-looking feathers that lack luster. The cere may look rough instead of smooth, and you may see an accumulation of a yellow dry scale on the sides of the beak.
Cause of action or preventative measures: Birds usually respond quickly to the supplementation of vitamin A. Owners reported that once the nutritional deficiency was resolved, the feather condition and overall well-being improved drastically - within several days in fact.
Vitamin A occurs naturally in dark leafy greens and orange-colored produce, such as apricots, cantaloupes, carrots, red peppers, pumpkins and sweet potatoes. To resolve Vitamin A deficiency, try adding foods like sweet potatoes (either cooked or steamed until soft), mashed up with other fruits will be both loved by your pet bird, as much as it is good for her or him. Many birds also enjoy fresh carrot juice - or try offering shredded carrots. Natural sources are preferable over synthetically produced nutrients, which may not be absorbable and could easily be overdosed).​
    • Excess Protein: Stored, excess protein promotes the growth of internal bacteria which are excreted through the skin. In areas where there are feathers, those feathers will usually absorb the protein. In bare areas, such as the feet, these bacteria will present themselves as pink, red and then blue "calluses." These most often show up on the bottom of the feet; however, may also appear on the top or on the tips of the toes, above or under the bird's toenails.
      It is important to reduce the protein in the bird's diet to stop the progression of this condition.​
    • If only one bird is suffering from it and others that are about in the same age range, share the same enclosure and have the same habits (perching, eating) - then this may be caused by:
      • compromised immune function
      • a metabolic disorder (problems metabolizing certain nutrients, such as vitamins, minerals or proteins - or excessive uric acid levels circulating in the system)
      • uric acid
      • an infection
Once the condition has been resolved, it is important to keep an eye on the patient(s) and these areas in particular to make sure that the problem isn' t recurring.
 
Bumble Foot & Uric Acid


Uric acid is a waste product left over from metabolism of chemical compounds; however, it can also be found in some foods.
High uric acid levels in the blood may crystallize in the joints, ligaments and tendon sheets, particularly in the joints of the feet and toes, and the soft tissues around the joints.

The potential cause of excessive uric acid levels are ...

  • More uric acid is produced than the kidneys can remove from the blood, due to:
    • hereditary reasons;
    • impaired kidney function (kidney diseases) leading to reduced excretion by the kidneys and build-up in the system;
    • metabolic conditions (Uric Acid Metabolism)
    • chronic diseases / infections;
    • improper diet (high fat, high protein, high Vitamin D, low Vitamin A), dehydration, over-feeding, obesity. Foods rich in dietary purine as well as fructose (often found in pellets / processed foods) can cause increased levels of uric acid.
    • inactivity;
    • environmental factors (improper / unclean perches / surfaces).

Diagnoses:

Visual Assessment:
Swollen, reddish and painful joints (toes, feet) and surrounding areas. Birds may be lame, favoring one leg over another, shifting weight from one foot to the other. Birds may show a change in temperament.​
Tests Potentially Recommended by Vets:
Blood tests, radiographs, biopsies and /or identification of uric acid crystals in joint fluid can be used to confirm this condition.​

Common Treatment Protocols

  • Eliminate or at least reduce any food items with high levels of uric acid from a bird's diet, such as:
    • meats (beef, pork, seafood, insects) , insects or dairy products (including eggs);
    • yeast-containing breads or other bakery products.
  • Offer or increase the amount of food items that help control uric acid levels, including:
    • leafy green foods (such as parsley and Alfalfa)l
    • celery / celery seed;
    • black / bitter cherries, cherry juice or cherry extract;
    • produce rich in Vitamin C, such as apples, oranges, lemons, broccoli, pomegranates, mangoes, limes and papayas


Interesting they suggest feeding cherries, black and bitter, cherry juice and cherry extract. Also notice, there is our favorite PAPAYAS!
 
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Wow, that's a fabulous amount of information, thanks so much. I am cutting out the meat in scraps and adding more leafy veg, apples - and, yes, papaya!

Yesterday I didn't let them out for quite so long - 3 hours instead of 4, and I will restrict their time a little for a while, as she does much more walking and running about then. I keep the sand floor of the run clean, twice a day and their coop roost has never had poop on it, but I clean it anyway. I actually lowered it recently, as since she broke her toe she can't jump so easily. I suspect the amount of rock we have in our garden may be a factor. It is on the edge of an old sandstone quarry and there are great bedrock slabs right through the garden so a lot of the time she is on very hard ground. Not much I can do about that. Conincidentally, DH cleared a pile of timber out from under some trees (you know the pile - "this might come in handy one day"....?). It is full of leaf litter and bugs making homes there, so it is current favourite place - and very soft, so that is good for her.

They have two outdoor roosts in their run, just old branches which I very carefully sandpapered all the burrs off. I still went over it again yesterday. Today she went up onto it, the first time I've seen her do that for ages, so maybe her feet are feeling a little better. Bless her, she's the only one to give me an egg today! I hope I have modified their conditions sufficient to prevent it getting worse, or the others getting it. Thanks so much for getting all that info to me.

All the best
Katrina
 
hey all,not egg or chicken related but I've been just sittng here watching my sick dog wondering what he's thinking. He is suspected to have chronic hepatitis--I know, weird. His abdomen is filling with fluid so he's starting to breath a little more shallow. We were sent home last evening with pain meds and a decision to make. Take him to Ohio State for a liver biopsy just to confirm, or try treatment for the suspected condition-may or may not work, or we have to put him down. He just received a dose of pain meds but he's been vomiting so his poor tummy is not good. He's going to be 11 in July. My husband just left to do a few things at work and we're supposed to call the vet at 9:00, not sure I can make him wait that long. Although he seems to be resting comfortably at the moment--wish I were. :(
 
hey all,not egg or chicken related but I've been just sittng here watching my sick dog wondering what he's thinking. He is suspected to have chronic hepatitis--I know, weird. His abdomen is filling with fluid so he's starting to breath a little more shallow. We were sent home last evening with pain meds and a decision to make. Take him to Ohio State for a liver biopsy just to confirm, or try treatment for the suspected condition-may or may not work, or we have to put him down. He just received a dose of pain meds but he's been vomiting so his poor tummy is not good. He's going to be 11 in July. My husband just left to do a few things at work and we're supposed to call the vet at 9:00, not sure I can make him wait that long. Although he seems to be resting comfortably at the moment--wish I were. :(
Oh kd,,, such heartbreaking news. I am so sorry you are faced with this decision. I have the worst memory, so please forgive me, is this the German Shorthair Pointer, or am I remembering wrong? There is something so heartwrenching watching an animal be in pain, or distress. I send you strength to you and your husband need for the next step in your ives together with your loyal friend. Sorry sweetie, hang in there, we are all here if you need us...xoxo

Carmela
 
I'm so sorry, you face the worst decision any animal lover has to make. It feels such a terrible burden, I know from my own experience. You love them so, and don't want to give up. But you also don't want them to suffer unnecessarily. There is no roadmap to guide you to one single correct answer. Follow your instincts and, whatever, focus on the joy brought to you by this life.

Good luck
Katrina
 
http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2011/12/molting-what-is-it-and-how-to-manage-it.html

Another great article on molting... something we will all be heading into at one time or another!
Once again. thank you! As we head into autumn Down Under, the first moult has been an interesting experience. It really rang true that they dislike handling. Sylvia the Silver Campine stopped jumping into my lap for bedtime treats for a few days.
sad.png
She has restarted but I have learnt not to stroke her as I did before - I guess it feels painful and yicky. The photo of the pin feather casings on the roost floor is very accurate. Like you have some wierd shedding-plastic alien in the flock. Freaked me right out at first.....

It's so great you share information like this that helps us newbies know what to expect. You're a star!!!!
ATB
Katrina
 
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Once again. thank you! As we head into autumn Down Under, the first moult has been an interesting experience. It really rang true that they dislike handling. Sylvia the Silver Campine stopped jumping into my lap for bedtime treats for a few days.
sad.png
She has restarted but I have learnt not to stroke her as I did before - I guess it feels painful and yicky. The photo of the pin feather casings on the roost floor is very accurate. Like you have some wierd shedding-plastic alien in the flock. Freaked me right out at first.....

It's so great you share information like this that helps us newbies know what to expect. You're a star!!!!
ATB
Katrina
OMgoodness Katrina,, Thank you, but remember, I am probably the biggest NEWBIE here! We are all learning from each other, and I love that you are in a different stage of it all than I am, I took notes during your exhausting heat wave,, and will use all your tips of frozen watermelon, and keeping the water cool. Since you mentioned that, you should see me moving my waterer all over the place with the arc of the sun, getting it out of the sun.
yippiechickie.gif


Horses are my expertise, and if I can learn so I feel comfortable like I do around them with chickens, I will feel great!

hugs!
MB
 

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