Any suggestions on how to solve our frostbite problem?

[deacons]

Hmmm not sure. I know the chicken chic is using it on her rooster and he's getting along just fine. Maybe the ingredients respond differently than water.

I will check out the resource you suggested and see what she has to say. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Bogtown Chick]

I've been wondering about vetricyn-use it and love it on scrapes and scratches ( on my horse too!). But something seems weird about putting something WET in the frost bitten surface when temps are in the single digits. Seems like that would just make things worse?

Deacons: what I did with that treatment is when I brought the rooster in cleaned him up. Soap/Water, then sprayed Veterycin--let that AIR-DRY (you are absolutely correct about wet going back out to the cold) and then I occluded it -- if you will with Neosporin or bacitracin....bag balm would probably be better.

 

[Davidally122]

Yes I just noticed she has her rooster in the basement since it's still not above freezing. So you would be right about the moisture from the Vetericyn causing problems.

 

[wantedman66]

My guess is you are more the exception than the rule when it comes to frostbite.  I wish we were all this lucky.

It is extremely frustrating when you think you have researched to the ends of this website and back again and this sort of thing brings you to your knees in such a humbling fashion that it resets your gears.  You learn there are things you just have to accept that are out of your control and you just maintain what you can and learn to "let go". --very difficult for me sometimes.  The biggest lesson for me was the "letting go" part and picking the breed part when it comes to this.  I will always practice good husbandry with my birds--so don't get me wrong on the "letting go" part-- but there are somethings I've learned is that everybody's advice is different and that is because they have different birds, they have different number of birds, they have different climates, they have different coops, they have different bedding,.....etc etc. etc.  And always watch your own birds and see what is happening to them and take all of this advice with a grain of salt and incorporate only what you think is going to work.  Last year I thought, "I am not going to have weak, unwinterized chickens."--no heat, no insulation.  This year I'm thinking:  "When it's -30 I'm warming that coop up and insulating with snow and foam boards on the north and west sides so it is not a cruel temperature (0 and above I'm okay with )."  Funny what a year does to you.

I guess I'm one of the exceptions than the rule too because we've been below freezing during the days and below O* at night all week and I've got 4 big combed roo's and none got frostbite and I didn't do anything special.Maybe just lucky though or could be because of the crazy temp swings we have,don't know but was 15* yesterday and will be 55* and rain tomorrow.

 

[Granny Hatchet]

i lost one of my roos in a heated coop and all the rest are frost bite badly. i had a space heater in there only when it was -50 with wind chill. didnt help them at all. another coop without any heat fared the same. experience over hope to never repeat it.

 

[Bogtown Chick]

I guess I'm one of the exceptions than the rule too because we've been below freezing during the days and below O* at night all week and I've got 4 big combed roo's and none got frostbite and I didn't do anything special.Maybe just lucky though or could be because of the crazy temp swings we have,don't know but was 15* yesterday and will be 55* and rain tomorrow.

Could be the dimensions of your coop, number of birds you have...where your ventilation is....

Lucky.

 

[Beekissed]

No, never put in a lower vent. That WILL cause a draft. Venting needs to be in the roof or eaves of the coop. Roost bars need to be much lower than the vents. A draft is breeze blowing or disturbing the air around the roost bar. Good venting is air moving above the birds, not on or near them, and whisking away the moisture after it rises. Birds should roost in quiet air. Ventilation is air moving up and out the roof, or from eave to eave, not disturbing the air around the birds.

I've had the opposite experience. Adding a large vent at the bottom of the coop moved air up and out and I had no more frost bite on comb points. It doesn't cause a draft...a draft is a breeze that will blow out a candle. If your vent is angled correctly you shouldn't have a breeze of that magnitude coming in the coop, but you should have fresh air seeping in to displace the stale, humid air and moving it up and out but it's not a wind or a draft...just a pleasant exchange of stale to fresh.

It seems counterintuitive to open up more positive air flow when it's cold outside but it just may be the ticket. Last year I had my coop buckled down too tightly as it was my first winter with this type of coop....I soon started to see condensation on the roof and moist bedding from the trapped, humid air though I had good ventilation at the roof and I thought I had enough at the floor level. This year I left much more space at the roof line(10 in gaps) and much, much more space at all levels of the coop and it was wonderfully warm and dry in there for the bulk of the winter...noticeably warmer than the outside air, even when we had temps in the low teens.

For this subzero temps I added a heat lamp for two days through the worst of it, but even with the lamp my coop thermometer read ten below... the heat was just fine because I had adequate ventilation...lots of open areas in the coop. No frostbite and no signs of discomfort. My birds are fed wet feed of room temps every morning and have an open waterer.

Earlier this winter I had obtained a pen of thirteen roosters of all breeds and only one with small comb and wattles, some came to me with frostbit combs already. They were placed in a sheltered area with wind blocking on most of the four sides at the floor level but the top of the pen was completely open air and a 3 ft. space at the bottom front was as well. We had sustained temps in the teens for several nights and daytime temps in the 20s. The roosters were on deep litter of shavings and leaves and were eating wet feeds each morning with a nipple cup waterer.

Not only did they not get frost bite but the ones with frost bite when they arrived had the color return to their points and all made it to processing a month later with no more signs of frost bite. The only thing done for their frostbite upon arrival was a massage with castor oil.

 

[LTygress]

The problem with Neosporin, Vetericyn, Vaseline, etc., is that they don't work. Many of you suspect it or already have experience with it, but they are actually very bad for frostbite.

They are all very GOOD for open wounds that are at risk of infection, and I think somewhere along the line someone confused a frostbite burn with an open wound and started to use vaseline to take care of it. But it does more harm than good. And if you think about it, your chickens aren't very likely to get an infection even on an open wound in temperatures so far below freezing anyway - the germs outside of their body probably aren't alive anymore! So when they get frostbite, there really isn't any need to treat it with any sort of liquid - until the temperature warms back up.

But all of these products are a form of liquid. Liquid is a very good heat conductor. Metal is another example. Heat conductor means heat moves THROUGH them very well. In winter, that means it transfers the heat to other objects (such as the air) much faster, and thus loses heat. In summer, they take in the heat from the sun faster than the air itself does. That's why a glass of water sitting in the sun will be warmer than the air around it. That's also why your car door handles (made of metal) seem to be much hotter in summer sun, or colder in winter - and why they aren't so bad when in the shade (because it's the sun's heat they are absorbing, not the air).

So heat conductors are good at TRANSFERRING heat. Both absorbing it, and dispersing it.

Frostbite is where - for some reason or another - the blood has stopped circulating in the area, and the cold has officially frozen that spot. The cold itself could be the reason it froze over - the blood vessels just couldn't keep up with the falling temperatures. But it could also be something else - like a recent injury damaging the blood vessels, which caused low or no circulation until the freezing temperatures set in on it.

When you put liquids on a frostbitten area, the liquid tries to TRANSFER the heat. It absorbs it from the comb, and tries to put it in the cooler air. It tries to even things out. This, of course, is very bad for your chicken's comb! Now add to that, the fact that water needs heat to evaporate, and you can see where this spells disaster for your frostbitten chicken! Any liquid you put on them, is going to try it's best to take heat from their comb, either to evaporate, or to transfer it to the air.

One of the absolute best things you can do to a frostbitten comb is actually to cover it in a powder, like baby powder. This will help it to actually stay DRY, which allows the heat to stay in, and the blood vessels can do their work of keeping up with the circulation. Powder will also help absorb any sweat the chickens may have in their comb, so their own sweat won't encourage more frostbite. Aside from that, nothing can help except simple heat (DRY heat).

And again, if frostbite actually causes an open wound later on, wait until it gets warmer to treat it.

 

[SIMZ]

My guess is you are more the exception than the rule when it comes to frostbite. I wish we were all this lucky.

It is extremely frustrating when you think you have researched to the ends of this website and back again and this sort of thing brings you to your knees in such a humbling fashion that it resets your gears. You learn there are things you just have to accept that are out of your control and you just maintain what you can and learn to "let go". --very difficult for me sometimes. The biggest lesson for me was the "letting go" part and picking the breed part when it comes to this. I will always practice good husbandry with my birds--so don't get me wrong on the "letting go" part-- but there are somethings I've learned is that everybody's advice is different and that is because they have different birds, they have different number of birds, they have different climates, they have different coops, they have different bedding,.....etc etc. etc. And always watch your own birds and see what is happening to them and take all of this advice with a grain of salt and incorporate only what you think is going to work. Last year I thought, "I am not going to have weak, unwinterized chickens."--no heat, no insulation. This year I'm thinking: "When it's -30 I'm warming that coop up and insulating with snow and foam boards on the north and west sides so it is not a cruel temperature (0 and above I'm okay with )." Funny what a year does to you.

This just perfectly sums it up and makes me feel so much better! Deaconess also helped put my mind at ease a bit, too. My rooster has walked around with black tips to his comb now for about a month, but yesterday he looked better and actually had some tips left!

Good husbandry, common sense, learning from mistakes, and being willing to adjust are probably the keys. Perfect! Thanks for everyone who responded!

 

[Triple Willow]

I recommend CASTOR OIL for frostbite, which was recommended to me by Beekissed. I have learned that castor oil happens to be good for a whole lot of things (Thank you Beekissed!). I'm going to start keeping it on hand all the time.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...or-oil-to-treat-health-conditions.aspx#_edn12

Another thing I am going to use and good to keep around is Plantain Salve made from the green leafy plantain plants (not the fruit). If no salve is available use the plantain plant its self, both orally and topically.
http://www.wildplantforager.com/1/p...o-make-a-plantain-poultice-the-right-way.html