Anybody ever feed Kent "Wildlife Feeds"?

[Stellar]

Quote:
Are you housing your birds in pairs? Weak chicks, in button quail especially are due to colony breeding at times.

 

[Stellar]

Ok here is the deal with Kent feed. STOP FEEDING IT to your button quail!!!!!!!

An email from a Button Quail Breeder of 30 years and my Breeder friend Jodi McDonald (The author of "A Closer Look at Button Quail") wrote this to me:

"The Kent feed line has been unstable for quite a while. They recalled the pig feed that was terribly bad..it caused broken legs, hip displacement, miscarriages ...but what concerns me is that it was supposedly "tweaked" and re-marketed as poultry/game bird feed. You are right about rapid growth not being good.. we are not raising them for butcher, which is why the growth nutrients are added to feed..(poultry and GB for slaughter) hope this helps...I'll try to find a couple links for you. But I think if you Google Kent Feeds it should come up too. The important thing is that they specialize in GROWTH products for game preserves, poultry farms and hog farms. I personally would not use it. The vitamins for Kent are supplied by a company called Tri-Ag and they have had a lot of problems with their "balance" of nutrients. In my opinion the product is unstable, due to varying mixes.remember that some nutrients are listed in min and some in max... the min listings are always a concern for me. CBB Quail being so small can easily be overdosed with additives. "

I want you to have the healthiest Buttons possible.

 

[warmfuzzyfeeling]

Thanks everyone. Just wanted to let you know that I've been reading the posts--but I haven't had a chance yet to sit down and compose replies!

 

[Stellar]

The product you most likely using is in their "High Flyer" line and they use Methiorine Also the salt content is too high for these little guys! The Vitamin A is also way off the charts.. People don't realize these little quail are ...well ... little! it doesn't take much to cause an overdose of vitamins. The purpose of this feed is to produce strong flighted and fat birds for hunting. NOT for cage birds. I wouldn't use it. For the Button Quail sake.

The evidence gained from animal studies suggests that normal diets that are high in methionine content, especially when accompanied by deficiencies of the B vitamin <http://www.herbs2000.com/vitamins/v_b_complex.htm> complex, could possibly heighten the risk of atherosclerosis <http://www.herbs2000.com/disorders/arteriosclerosis.htm> - which is the hardening of the arteries. This situation may come about due to an increase in the levels of cholesterol in the blood and higher levels of a compound called homocysteine in the body. Human tests conducted in the laboratory have not sufficiently tested out this hypothesis and further study is needed. The evidence however points to the fact that high methionine intake in the diet, if combined with deficiency in folic acid <http://www.herbs2000.com/vitamins/v_b9.htm>, vitamin B6 <http://www.herbs2000.com/vitamins/v_b6.htm> and vitamin B12 <http://www.herbs2000.com/vitamins/v_b12.htm> levels in the body, can lead to a great increase in the conversion of methionine to the compound called homocysteine. This compound is a chemical substance connected to heart disease <http://www.herbs2000.com/disorders/heart_disease.htm> and stroke <http://www.herbs2000.com/disorders/stroke.htm> in patients. The link between supplemental methionine and this relationship with deficiencies of the B vitamins has not been studied and whether or not this connection is a qualified hazard for humans using supplements of methionine must be established in further studies. No severe effects health wise has been registered in any patients who supplemented with up to two grams of methionine per day, even for long periods of time.


High Flyer Breeder


Guaranteed Analysis

<http://www.kentfeeds.com/products/poultry/highFlyer/highFlyer.php#>
Crude Protein, min
17.0%
Lysine, min
0.9%
Methionine, min
0.45%
Crude Fat, min
3.5%
Crude Fiber, max
4.0%
Calcium (Ca), min
2.5%
Calcium (Ca), max
3.5%
Phosphorus (P), min
0.75%
Salt (NaCl), min
0.2%
Salt (NaCl), max
0.7%
Vitamin A, min
7500 IU/lb
Vitamin D_3 , min
1960 IU/lb
Vitamin E, min
25 IU/lb


High Flyer Maintenance


Guaranteed Analysis

<http://www.kentfeeds.com/products/poultry/highFlyer/highFlyer.php#>
Crude Protein, min
16.0%
Lysine, min
0.77%
Methionine, min
0.29%
Crude Fat, min
3.0%
Crude Fiber, max
6.0%
Calcium (Ca), min
0.5%
Calcium (Ca), max
1.0%
Phosphorus (P), min
0.8%
Salt (NaCl), min
0.25%
Salt (NaCl), max
0.75%
Vitamin A, min
4100 IU/lb
Vitamin D_3 , min
1170 IU/lb
Vitamin E, min
14 IU/lb


High Flyer 28:


Guaranteed Analysis

<http://www.kentfeeds.com/products/poultry/highFlyer/highFlyer.php#>
Crude Protein, min
28.0%
Lysine, min
1.6%
Methionine, min
0.65%
Crude Fat, min
4.0%
Crude Fiber, max
4.0%
Calcium (Ca), min
1.2%
Calcium (Ca), max
1.7%
Phosphorus (P), min
1.0%
Salt (NaCl), min
0.25%
Salt (NaCl), max
0.75%
Selenium (Se), min
0.3 ppm
Vitamin A, min
5400 IU/lb
Vitamin D_3 , min
1425 IU/lb
Vitamin E, min
18 IU/


Guaranteed Analysis


High Flyer™ 22

A complete starter feed for pheasants, quail, chukars, and turkeys. It is available as a small granule, either unmedicated or medicated with amprolium, a coccidiostat.

<http://www.kentfeeds.com/products/poultry/highFlyer/highFlyer.php#>
Crude Protein, min
22.0%
Lysine, min
1.25%
Methionine, min
0.48%
Crude Fat, min
2.5%
Crude Fiber, max
4.0%
Calcium (Ca), min
0.8%
Calcium (Ca), max
1.3%
Phosphorus (P), min
0.9%
Salt (NaCl), min
0.15%
Salt (NaCl), max
0.65%
Selenium (Se), min
0.3 ppm
Vitamin A, min
4900 IU/lb
Vitamin D_3 , min
1285 IU/lb
Vitamin E, min
17 IU/lb

 

[warmfuzzyfeeling]

OK, I’m finally sitting down to catch up on all of the helpful posts that many of you have kindly taken the time to write! I'll put my own words in bold to help differentiate.

JJMR794 wrote…
There Are Many Reasons For Misguided Advice From Feed Stores--- Most Are Honest Mistakes.

If He Carries Mannapro Feeds Have Him Order You Some Mannapro Starter/ Showbird Feed- 30% Its A Good Product. Not As Good As Purinas But Still A Good Product

Go To Purina Mill's Website --- They Have A Dealor Locator Built In To It And May Be Able To Steer You To A Source For Their Product In Your Area.

Additional Soybean Meal Would Likely Not Help As The Wildlife Feed Has Soybean Meal In It.... What It's Lacking Are Likely The Subtle Ingredients That Make The Difference Between Gamebird Feed And Others, As Stated Here In The Forum Many Times "there's More To It Than Just Protien%"

As Far As Your Kent Wildlife Feed In The Camo Bag..... If Its The Same Feed I Put In My Feeder Stations For Deer/hog Then It Definately Is Not Gamebird Formula, And So Far As I Remember There's No Tags On It Either (been A Couple Of Weeks And When You Spend 1/2 Day Lugging 50lb Bags Thru The Swamp To Fill 50 Gal Barrels In Order To Maintain The Feed Stations In Brutal Heat And Humidity You Tend To Not Pay Attention To Lil Details Like That...)

I will find out if one of the feed stores in my area is able to order Manna Pro 30% or Purina. I think I will also have to email Kent—maybe with a photo of the bag of feed—to find out if they can tell me exactly what it is, nutritional analysis, etc.

Buttercup Chillin wrote…
This feed could be the problem you are having with the wry neck in the chicks. I would not breed any of these birds from that hatch or the previous.

I went through this with my chicken flock years ago and basically had to start over. I not only culled the Roo where the problem stemed from but all of his offspring. None could be bred or I risked carrying forward a neurological problem.

If you are evaluating these birds, this would not be fair to them for a mistake made by you in the breeding and feeding of them. They may look healthy and very colorful. But you know they have a problem because the wry neck has occured in your flock.

I am sorry, but I know what I would do in your case. I realize you have been breeding them for at least a year now. It can be very frustrating when working with any breeding program.

Depending on what I find out about the feed, there is certainly a possibility that it is nutritionally inappropriate for the quail. The first thing to do is find out for certain whether or not this is 28% gamebird feed as it was represented to be.

Whether or not these chicks suffered from wry neck is a good question. If they had wry neck, it must have been a very atypical presentation. Their heads were not tipped back and their necks were not stiff, as with torticollis (our daughter had this, so we’re quite experienced with the typical presentation.) My understanding of wry neck is that it is a symptom of any number of conditions with any number of causes. Without knowing 1) A definitive diagnosis of the two chicks, and 2) Whether the cause was genetic, environmental, due to injury or other, unknown cause(s), it is difficult to conclude anything about the health of the flock one way or the other. The 15 chicks I had hatched were from a variety of genetic ancestries, so my main concern was contagion. Since the other chicks are still in good health, I can assume it was not a highly contagious disease, whatever the case.

Please do not be offended if I’m totally misinformed here, but my understanding of genetics is that nothing I can do, nutritionally or otherwise, would affect the basic DNA of the bird. In other words, even a malnourished bird or a bird hatched with birth defects caused by environmental contaminants would have normal offspring, right? So, even IF I had been feeding an imperfect diet, and even IF two of the chicks were culled due to disease caused by malnutrition, no problems would be passed on to future generations. I asked a friend of mine who is an RN whether the she was aware of any possibility of this sort of Lamarckian inheritance, and her opinion was—absolutely not. Even if the feed was bad, future generations of quail would not be at risk.

Since, at this point, I don’t have enough information to make an educated guess as to what went wrong with the two chicks, I think it would be premature to make any reactionary changes to my breeding program. I will have to go on watching the flock closely for similar behavior (sleeping on their heads or tucking their heads under their abdomens), but also accept the possibility that this will remain a mystery.

quailladyoffortmyers wrote…
Are you housing your birds in pairs? Weak chicks, in button quail especially are due to colony breeding at times.

All of the breeders are in pairs except for one group containing a male and 3 females. This was an improvised solution to one hen that kept trying to cannibalize her mates. For whatever reason, she is happy as a lark in this “group” setting. I’m keeping track of the pedigrees on my adults to prevent inbreeding, and so far haven’t had any weak chicks (the somersaulting duo were large, strong, thrifty chicks—aside from their bizarre behavior).

If I keep this generation of chicks, I will need to order eggs and hatch unrelated mates for them. I’m still deciding whether I want to phase out Button Quail and concentrate on my favorite variety—Texas A&M white coturnix.

quailladyoffortmyers wrote…
Ok here is the deal with Kent feed. STOP FEEDING IT to your button quail!!!!!!!

An email from a Button Quail Breeder of 30 years and my Breeder friend Jodi McDonald (The author of "A Closer Look at Button Quail") wrote this to me:

"The Kent feed line has been unstable for quite a while. They recalled the pig feed that was terribly bad..it caused broken legs, hip displacement, miscarriages ...but what concerns me is that it was supposedly "tweaked" and re-marketed as poultry/game bird feed. You are right about rapid growth not being good.. we are not raising them for butcher, which is why the growth nutrients are added to feed..(poultry and GB for slaughter) hope this helps...I'll try to find a couple links for you. But I think if you Google Kent Feeds it should come up too. The important thing is that they specialize in GROWTH products for game preserves, poultry farms and hog farms. I personally would not use it. The vitamins for Kent are supplied by a company called Tri-Ag and they have had a lot of problems with their "balance" of nutrients. In my opinion the product is unstable, due to varying mixes.remember that some nutrients are listed in min and some in max... the min listings are always a concern for me. CBB Quail being so small can easily be overdosed with additives. "

I want you to have the healthiest Buttons possible.

Thanks a lot for the info and well wishes. I have Jodi McDonald’s website in my bookmarks and really enjoyed her article in the Game Bird Gazette! I’ll try to find out more about Kent while looking for an alternative. My husband and I have read quite a bit on the problems with the animal feed industry over the years. I’m not a fan of animal-based protein in feeds because of what we’ve learned about the rendering industry, for instance. Thanks again for the heads-up on the recall.

I’m still looking over the nutrition information and links you included in your most recent post—thank you! I will email Kent next to find out which feed I have been using…In Kent's due defense, I wish to state once again that--except for the mysterious "rollover syndrome" in the two chicks (not necessarily caused by diet), my quail are doing GREAT. They feather in quickly, are intelligent and self-sufficient, hardy chicks that grow into healthy, alert adults with gorgeous, spotless plumage. I have lost a total of three birds this summer which I accidentally let fly out of the cage during feeding. Each time I'm amazed that this bird, who has never had the opportunity to try out its wings, can fly off into the distance without a hitch!

Best Regards,
Jennifer Kagemann

 

[JJMR794]

JENNIFER, FOR THE RECORD WRY NECK IS AN ENVIRONMENTAL CAUSE (DIETARY LACKING... TOO LONG ENUTERO, DRIED MEMBRANES. ETC...) NOT GENETIC, AT LEAST WAYS NOT IN QUAIL. AS FAR AS ATYPICAL PRESENTATION? YES IT IS ATYPICAL, BUT TYPICAL IN BIRDS IS NOT HYPEREXTENDED AS IN PEOPLE, ITS USUALLY A BENT OVER TO 1 SIDE TYPE OF PRESENTATION.... KEEP IN MIND THEIR ANATOMY IS SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT THAN US. i HOPE YOU GET TO THE BOTTOM OF IT.

AND GOOD LUCK FINDING YOUR FEED

 

[Tommie D]

http://www.kentfeeds.com/products/poultry/highFlyer/highFlyer.php

And here is the press release on the recall http://www.kentfeeds.com/press/releases.php

 

[Stellar]

I was just going to post it

Kudos for you!

 

[Tommie D]

I don't think the recall matters much unless your feeding your Quail Swine feed.

 

[JJMR794]

"Thanks a lot for the info and well wishes. I have Jodi McDonald’s website in my bookmarks and really enjoyed her article in the Game Bird Gazette! I’ll try to find out more about Kent while looking for an alternative. My husband and I have read quite a bit on the problems with the animal feed industry over the years. I’m not a fan of animal-based protein in feeds because of what we’ve learned about the rendering industry, for instance. Thanks again for the heads-up on the recall."

ANIMAL BASED PROTIEN IS A NECESSARY EVIL. IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO GET VIT B12. EVERY TRUE GAMEBIRD FEED SHOULD HAVE IT AND MOST IF YOU READ THE TAGS WILL STATE "CONTAINS RUMINANT BONE MEAL" WITHOUT B12 YOU END UP WITH BIRDS SUFFERING A HOST OF SKELETAL MALADIES FROM BUMBLE FOOT TO HIP DISPLASIA AND SOFT WEAK OR MIS-SHAPED LEG BONES.