Anybody watching the Civil War on PBS this week?

[foweler]

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Or how Lincoln hand-picked several Indian warriors to be hanged just to appease the voters, even though the warriors had committed no crime except defending their land.

Or how Lincoln threw 13,000 (low estimate) people into prison without a trial solely for openly disagreeing with the war.

Or how he put a judge under house arrest with no trial after said judge ruled the war unconstitutional.

Or how he censored telegrams and newspapers, and shut down quite a few opposition newspapers.

Or how he deported a vocal antiwar congressman after throwing him in prison - without a trial.

Or how he arrested most of the Maryland legislature with the ARMY because they might vote to secede.

Very similar to what W. Bush did, but yet the groups that hate Lincoln seem to routinely support W. Bush.

I don't think so. Most neo-cons see Lincoln as a hero. They even shy away from Bush when they can get away with it because of his support for bank bailouts, even though they stand behind his expansion of the US world empire abroad and police state at home.

Most people thinking seriously about revisionist history are distrustful of all power. Neo-cons are only distrustful of the "wrong" flavor of state power.

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
Or how Lincoln hand-picked several Indian warriors to be hanged just to appease the voters, even though the warriors had committed no crime except defending their land.

Or how Lincoln threw 13,000 (low estimate) people into prison without a trial solely for openly disagreeing with the war.

Or how he put a judge under house arrest with no trial after said judge ruled the war unconstitutional.

Or how he censored telegrams and newspapers, and shut down quite a few opposition newspapers.

Or how he deported a vocal antiwar congressman after throwing him in prison - without a trial.

Or how he arrested most of the Maryland legislature with the ARMY because they might vote to secede.

Very similar to what W. Bush did, but yet the groups that hate Lincoln seem to routinely support W. Bush.

That's pretty typical on just about everything. Of course Lincoln has a big strike against him these days. He is a hero in the eyes of Obama. That makes him an instant enemy.

 

[Dunkopf]

Q. I'm sure you know the answer to this since you are a virtual store house of all knowledge. Who was the Senator or southern politician that made the speech right after Ft Sumter about secession due to the abolition of slavery? One of the current batch of clowns currently in office takes great pride in re-creating the guys speech verbatim. He absolutely states that the north abolishing slavery was the specific reason for secession. I agree Lincoln did a lot of the stuff you listed. As has been pointed out GW did much of the same and worse. He got off easy though. Obama quite graciously declined the opportunity to punish him for his crimes. As he said "Cleaning up GW's mess was a much higher priority than putting him behind bars". It's bad enough he has to be careful what countries he travels too, so he doesn't get arrested.

 

[Q9]

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Reread the Bill of Rights again--"...life liberty and property" What do you suppose they were referring to? Also, after much reading about Jefferson, I'm not sure but what he was kind of a crackpot too who got too caught up in revolution for revolution sake rather than for the common good.
BTW, I have yet to find any opt out clause in the Constitution that allows States to secede , plus that was pretty much settled, for better or worse, by the Civil War.

The Tenth Amendment clearly states that powers not delegated to the government by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

States are not prohibited from seceding, and the Federal government is given no authority to prevent States from seceding. Simple logic.

As for Jefferson, I like him. I disagree with him in some areas - slavery and religion particularly - but geez, I don't see how you can think of the guy as a crackpot.

 

[foweler]

Quote:
Very similar to what W. Bush did, but yet the groups that hate Lincoln seem to routinely support W. Bush.

That's pretty typical on just about everything. Of course Lincoln has a big strike against him these days. He is a hero in the eyes of Obama. That makes him an instant enemy.

You completely glossed over what I said. Yes, neo-cons hate anything democrat and Obama is no exception. Liberals hate anything republican and Bush was a dream come true for them (where has Cindy Sheehan and the rest of the pretend anti-war movement gone BTW) though the biggest nightmare to civil liberty in some time, not to mention the heck unleashed on so many foriegn peoples.

That being true as it is.....there ARE some people who think they are both full of BS....namely the people I have been talking about and I believe...Q9 as well. Address it for what it is and not a tidy pre packaged, pre judged ideological left-right conflict. That is not what it is about.

 

[Q9]

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Was that Vice President Alexander Stephens? One of his speeches gets quoted a lot - I need to try to find the whole thing somewhere, as I'd like to see his comments in context. Oddly, he generally seemed to be one of the most cool-headed on either side. And BTW, I don't make any claim to knowing everything about the War.

I study it a lot, though, but I'm ready to admit that there's still plenty to learn. Which is why I just bought a book on the CSS Alabama and Capt. Raphael Semmes, actually. I love reading about the actual people - makes you realize that 600,000 isn't just a statistic.

Ha, as far as W goes, I seriously don't feel safe talking critically about the guy - probably a result of really bad experiences on other forums involving a lot of swearing and a few death threats.

 

[KristyHall]

Quote:
Was that Vice President Alexander Stephens? One of his speeches gets quoted a lot - I need to try to find the whole thing somewhere, as I'd like to see his comments in context. Oddly, he generally seemed to be one of the most cool-headed on either side. And BTW, I don't make any claim to knowing everything about the War.

I study it a lot, though, but I'm ready to admit that there's still plenty to learn. Which is why I just bought a book on the CSS Alabama and Capt. Raphael Semmes, actually. I love reading about the actual people - makes you realize that 600,000 isn't just a statistic.

Ha, as far as W goes, I seriously don't feel safe talking critically about the guy - probably a result of really bad experiences on other forums involving a lot of swearing and a few death threats .

It's why I abhor extremism. It doesn't lead to anything good, no matter what side you're on.

 

[foweler]

Quote:
Was that Vice President Alexander Stephens? One of his speeches gets quoted a lot - I need to try to find the whole thing somewhere, as I'd like to see his comments in context. Oddly, he generally seemed to be one of the most cool-headed on either side. And BTW, I don't make any claim to knowing everything about the War.

I study it a lot, though, but I'm ready to admit that there's still plenty to learn. Which is why I just bought a book on the CSS Alabama and Capt. Raphael Semmes, actually. I love reading about the actual people - makes you realize that 600,000 isn't just a statistic.

Ha, as far as W goes, I seriously don't feel safe talking critically about the guy - probably a result of really bad experiences on other forums involving a lot of swearing and a few death threats .

It's why I abhor extremism. It doesn't lead to anything good, no matter what side you're on.

Extremism? People getting violent isn't extremism, it's the sign of a person out of ideas.
Radicalism, what many are trying to kill by labeling it extremism and trying to make an apparent inseparable connection to violence in it, is what this country was founded on.
What does the middle of the road get you in the end anyway?

 

[KristyHall]

Quote:
It's why I abhor extremism. It doesn't lead to anything good, no matter what side you're on.

Extremism? People getting violent isn't extremism, it's the sign of a person out of ideas.
Radicalism, what many are trying to kill by labeling it extremism and trying to make an apparent inseparable connection to violence in it, is what this country was founded on.
What does the middle of the road get you in the end anyway?

so far? a level head ( not all of the time, i have my days), good friends from multiple classes, sects, races and religions, more opportunities, and enough sense to stay out of the stores the day after thanksgiving.

 

[foweler]

Quote:
Extremism? People getting violent isn't extremism, it's the sign of a person out of ideas.
Radicalism, what many are trying to kill by labeling it extremism and trying to make an apparent inseparable connection to violence in it, is what this country was founded on.
What does the middle of the road get you in the end anyway?

so far? a level head ( not all of the time, i have my days), good friends from multiple classes, sects, races and religions, more opportunities, and enough sense to stay out of the stores the day after thanksgiving.

LOL. I'm not centrist as it's too close to the south pole of the Nolan chart for me. And has a black hole like gravity from that source to fight to boot.
I tend toward the tippy top.