Anybody watching the Civil War on PBS this week?

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
That's pretty typical on just about everything. Of course Lincoln has a big strike against him these days. He is a hero in the eyes of Obama. That makes him an instant enemy.

You completely glossed over what I said. Yes, neo-cons hate anything democrat and Obama is no exception. Liberals hate anything republican and Bush was a dream come true for them (where has Cindy Sheehan and the rest of the pretend anti-war movement gone BTW) though the biggest nightmare to civil liberty in some time, not to mention the heck unleashed on so many foriegn peoples.

That being true as it is.....there ARE some people who think they are both full of BS....namely the people I have been talking about and I believe...Q9 as well. Address it for what it is and not a tidy pre packaged, pre judged ideological left-right conflict. That is not what it is about.

Actually I was typing while you were posting and I didn't see what you said. I fully agree with your statement about neo cons and far left liberals. Too far to either side blinds a person to reality. I like that chart you posted. I'm left of center in the middle section there. I could vote for a Republican except that they always vote as a block. Very rare for one to break out and vote what they actually think. Of course that makes them a much more potent force than the Democrats who tend to vote for what they feel is right. That results in a lot of legislation initiated by them failing. I like a lot of Libertarian ideas but the country could not realistically exist without a central government. So can't go there.

I agree with KristyHall. You can't be dead center, but too far in any direction accomplishes nothing. If some of my postings seem a touch radical, it is only because I am responding to a radical post.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
You completely glossed over what I said. Yes, neo-cons hate anything democrat and Obama is no exception. Liberals hate anything republican and Bush was a dream come true for them (where has Cindy Sheehan and the rest of the pretend anti-war movement gone BTW) though the biggest nightmare to civil liberty in some time, not to mention the heck unleashed on so many foriegn peoples.

That being true as it is.....there ARE some people who think they are both full of BS....namely the people I have been talking about and I believe...Q9 as well. Address it for what it is and not a tidy pre packaged, pre judged ideological left-right conflict. That is not what it is about.

Actually I was typing while you were posting and I didn't see what you said. I fully agree with your statement about neo cons and far left liberals. Too far to either side blinds a person to reality. I like that chart you posted. I'm left of center in the middle section there. I could vote for a Republican except that they always vote as a block. Very rare for one to break out and vote what they actually think. Of course that makes them a much more potent force than the Democrats who tend to vote for what they feel is right. That results in a lot of legislation initiated by them failing. I like a lot of Libertarian ideas but the country could not realistically exist without a central government. So can't go there.

I agree with KristyHall. You can't be dead center, but too far in any direction accomplishes nothing. If some of my postings seem a touch radical, it is only because I am responding to a radical post.

Ron Paul. There have been SEVERAL incidents where he was the sole "no" vote.

I think government does serve a purpose, but it's a very small one. Law enforcement, court systems, and national defense are about the only things government is competent at doing. And even in those areas they need some work.

 

[foweler]

Quote:
Actually I was typing while you were posting and I didn't see what you said. I fully agree with your statement about neo cons and far left liberals. Too far to either side blinds a person to reality. I like that chart you posted. I'm left of center in the middle section there. I could vote for a Republican except that they always vote as a block. Very rare for one to break out and vote what they actually think. Of course that makes them a much more potent force than the Democrats who tend to vote for what they feel is right. That results in a lot of legislation initiated by them failing. I like a lot of Libertarian ideas but the country could not realistically exist without a central government. So can't go there.

I agree with KristyHall. You can't be dead center, but too far in any direction accomplishes nothing. If some of my postings seem a touch radical, it is only because I am responding to a radical post.

Ron Paul. There have been SEVERAL incidents where he was the sole "no" vote.

I think government does serve a purpose, but it's a very small one. Law enforcement, court systems, and national defense are about the only things government is competent at doing. And even in those areas they need some work.

In those services they could do with some decentralization and preferably.....competition. Monopoly is bad, even in govt. That of course is the essence of the strong state debate.
A central standing army is a bad thing. If we want defense (and who doesn't) it should be in the form of local groups paying for their own weapons, ammo and training. A network of locally run garrisons can be coordinated by state level administration and those brought together in a national pact of mutual cooperation. It would be hard for a national executive to send such a force off to create friendly govts in foriegn lands for the benefit of US fruit importers or oilmen, as it should be. Defense is not done overseas.

The rule of law should never be a monopoly or should enforcement. That is precisley why we have cops confiscating video cameras with relative impunity and a legal system that much more about generating revenue that compensating victims.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
Ron Paul. There have been SEVERAL incidents where he was the sole "no" vote.

I think government does serve a purpose, but it's a very small one. Law enforcement, court systems, and national defense are about the only things government is competent at doing. And even in those areas they need some work.

In those services they could do with some decentralization and preferably.....competition. Monopoly is bad, even in govt. That of course is the essence of the strong state debate.
A central standing army is a bad thing. If we want defense (and who doesn't) it should be in the form of local groups paying for their own weapons, ammo and training. A network of locally run garrisons can be coordinated by state level administration and those brought together in a national pact of mutual cooperation. It would be hard for a national executive to send such a force off to create friendly govts in foriegn lands for the benefit of US fruit importers or oilmen, as it should be. Defense is not done overseas.

The rule of law should never be a monopoly or should enforcement. That is precisley why we have cops confiscating video cameras with relative impunity and a legal system that much more about generating revenue that compensating victims.

There's definitely issues, and I totally agree about defense. Practically everything can be handled at the state level or even more local. I think there is a need for a standing Air Force and Navy, simply due to the sheer complexity and amount of training needed, but otherwise... Just look at Switzerland. Nobody's had the guts to invade it.

Honestly, the police I feel is a legitimate state program, but IMO it should be very clear that citizens can resist - with force if necessary - an officer attempting to search without a warrant. Also have very, VERY strict guidelines for police - they've been entrusted with a lot of authority, and if they abuse it, punishment should by VERY harsh.

 

[KristyHall]

Quote:
You completely glossed over what I said. Yes, neo-cons hate anything democrat and Obama is no exception. Liberals hate anything republican and Bush was a dream come true for them (where has Cindy Sheehan and the rest of the pretend anti-war movement gone BTW) though the biggest nightmare to civil liberty in some time, not to mention the heck unleashed on so many foriegn peoples.

That being true as it is.....there ARE some people who think they are both full of BS....namely the people I have been talking about and I believe...Q9 as well. Address it for what it is and not a tidy pre packaged, pre judged ideological left-right conflict. That is not what it is about.

Actually I was typing while you were posting and I didn't see what you said. I fully agree with your statement about neo cons and far left liberals. Too far to either side blinds a person to reality. I like that chart you posted. I'm left of center in the middle section there. I could vote for a Republican except that they always vote as a block. Very rare for one to break out and vote what they actually think. Of course that makes them a much more potent force than the Democrats who tend to vote for what they feel is right. That results in a lot of legislation initiated by them failing. I like a lot of Libertarian ideas but the country could not realistically exist without a central government. So can't go there.

I agree with KristyHall. You can't be dead center, but too far in any direction accomplishes nothing. If some of my postings seem a touch radical, it is only because I am responding to a radical post.

it isn't possible to be perfectly neutral. we all have our opinions. in my teen and college years I was far more radical before I calmed my butt down.

I realized I was getting old before my time and got tired of constantly fighting. constantly at meetings, on boards in watch dog groups, and running into the same ignorance, stereotypes and racism and the same justifications for the views.

I also realized as time went on my jumping in guns a blazing approach turned more people off from what iw as trying to say then actually made people listen. My advice to Q9 is the same advice given to me. If you come off as too extreme, no one is going to listen to you. they will write you off as a fanatic, or get angry and defensive, and simply shut down.

It's why prosylitizing and threatening hellfire and brimstone towards non Christians fails to convert them to Christianity, why far left and far right people in the same room rarely ends with anything lower than a shouting match, and why protests rarely end peacefully. Someone always wants to ratchet it up a notch and people stop listening when this happens and start fighting.

it's our nature. we all d it, we all get sarcastic or pushy. we just have to recognize that behavior in ourselves when we do it and work to stop it. I'm directing this at you Q9 Because you remind me of me as a teen. You're passionate about a topic, you make an effort to research it, and you will argue about it until your face is blue. That can be good and bad.

You could try to listen to and read sources of opinions that you don't agree with as well as what you do agree with other wise you won't learn anything, you'll just keep going over the same info you already know, and that information may be flawed.

I personally seriously dislike rush limbaugh and glen beck and find stephen colbert obnoxious at times and john stewart preachy but i listen to them because there are times they have good points. You're obviously an intelligent young person Q9, I challenge you to look at all sides and put that smarts to good use. It's not an easy thing to do but I think you can do it.

I think I just went off on a tangit

 

[EweSheep]

Well the Vice President Andrew Johnson didn't help matters trying to settle down the Civil War with Lincoln being gone.

With so many widowers having no husband, I just don't know how they find partners, maybe not all of them were that badly crippled.

How many of the generals, commanders, corporals have went on to productive careers? Not sure if they had the same problems like our boys comng down with post depression of the war. Or they were harden by the war.

I remember seeing the pictures of Gettysburg, grosteque bodies and I could not figure it out why they looked so bloated. Come to find out that it was in July, hot and it did rain sometime in those three days of war.

I remember one story about a young woman who was impregnanted by a bullet that was "coated" with sperm from a soldier nearby. I find it silly and a bullet is so hot, it would burn anything on that surface with that kind of friction. Even with soldiers standing side by side, I am sure they probably would have "shared" body tissues at close promicity as the bullet whizzed thru three bodies. One thing that some of us said if three soldiers stand side by side, or front to back, the bullet that hits the first soldier would carry on to the third soldier behind or beside him would get the body tissue of the first AND second soldier. Now that really got me thinking more and more, it may be possible. And VD being really bad, may be passing VD to the unsuspecting soldier who got shot.

 

[foweler]

I also realized as time went on my jumping in guns a blazing approach turned more people off from what iw as trying to say then actually made people listen. My advice to Q9 is the same advice given to me. If you come off as too extreme, no one is going to listen to you. they will write you off as a fanatic, or get angry and defensive, and simply shut down.

It's only in those rare periods and locales in history where people have the luxury to feel that way where that happens. We here are nearing the end of just such a period. Hunger radicalizes like nothing else, or rather, falling to a state of hunger when having not known that state before.....ask the folks in the middle east and north africa.

In times like that (coming soon here) no one wants to hear people saying "Just wait and maintain the status quo, things will be OK." They don't have time to wait.​

 

[KristyHall]

Quote:
It's only in those rare periods and locales in history where people have the luxury to feel that way where that happens. We here are nearing the end of just such a period. Hunger radicalizes like nothing else, or rather, falling to a state of hunger when having not known that state before.....ask the folks in the middle east and north africa.

I've known hunger, very well. Not starvation mind you. But I've been close. and a lot of people on impoverished reservations have known starvation within this past generation. yet I know many perfectly reasonable native people who have suffered horribly over the years from Indian schools , segregation, bigotry, and starvation

 

[foweler]

Quote:
It's only in those rare periods and locales in history where people have the luxury to feel that way where that happens. We here are nearing the end of just such a period. Hunger radicalizes like nothing else, or rather, falling to a state of hunger when having not known that state before.....ask the folks in the middle east and north africa.

I've known hunger, very well. Not starvation mind you. But I've been close. and a lot of people on impoverished reservations have known starvation within this past generation. yet I know many perfectly reasonable native people who have suffered horribly over the years from Indian schools , segregation, bigotry, and starvation

Wait until that same pressure is the norm.....and it even effects white people! Wait until it hits our generation of "Jersey Shore" fans and people who have learned to feed on people's grief as entertainment.
Don't forget the crushing debt 80% of people are just 1 or 2 paychecks from falling under these days.
Man! I'm depressed now. How about an episode of Colbert to cheer me up

 

[KristyHall]

Quote:
I've known hunger, very well. Not starvation mind you. But I've been close. and a lot of people on impoverished reservations have known starvation within this past generation. yet I know many perfectly reasonable native people who have suffered horribly over the years from Indian schools , segregation, bigotry, and starvation

Wait until that same pressure is the norm.....and it even effects white people! Wait until it hits our generation of "Jersey Shore" fans and people who have learned to feed on people's grief as entertainment.
Don't forget the crushing debt 80% of people are just 1 or 2 paychecks from falling under these days.
Man! I'm depressed now. How about an episode of Colbert to cheer me up

man... that's a scary thought. could you imagine all the jersey shore people out there desperate for food?

*shudders*