Anybody watching the Civil War on PBS this week?

[Q9]

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I seriously have no idea how on Earth anything I said relates to one guy I've never heard of and another guy I've only heard of thanks to some scandal involving drugs or something. I'm talking about people I know personally who own actual guns who know how to use them. Also, if any hypothetical invader decided to go all-out and start killing civilians to get rid of insurgents, they'd have one heck of a job, as they'd almost literally have to carpet-bomb every single town and forest out of existence. I must mention once again, you totally neglect to factor in terrain. If someone were trying to take over the entire US, or even most of it, they'd have to start by landing on the coast, problematic in and of itself, then deal with crossing intra-coastal waterways, as well as dealing with numerous bogs and rivers, not to mention forests, then hitting an inevitable mountain range, the whole time being harassed by militant Americans. The situation is made exponentially worse for the invader assuming an invasion begins in the Southeast - in our area, if you're not in the mountains or the country, you're inevitably going to hit a freaking huge marsh or swamp and have to go around. There are so many possible choke points that the only way to be secure would be to lauch tactical nukes - or at least going on a massive napalm campaign - prior to advancing through. Have you ever been down South? If you ever talk to a person out in the country down here, you'll find that almost everyone owns a military-grade bolt rifle, and they can shoot with 'em, too! Quite a few have "assault" rifles and a crapload of ammo as well. Heck, I've got a friend who informed me that he "only" had fifteen guns, and that his grandpa had even more, including two AR-15s and an AK-47, along with three Mauser bolt rifles, one of which is rigged up as a sniper rifle. A friend of his has a .408 caliber sniper rifle. Another friend of mine keeps a Mossberg tactical shotgun with a magazine extension, an AR-15 with a freaking holographic sight, a Soviet Mosin-Nagant rifle, and a Nazi K98 Mauser - in addition to his handguns.

Remember, snipers are the dread of any invading army. If they're remotely decent, they are never noticed until an officer's head explodes, and then they disappear into the surrounding area. With guerrilla warfare, the insurgents are almost impossible to separate from the populace at large, and you can't kill the entire population. Then there's the obscene ease of making primitive explosives - it's possible to make a homemade RPG round, which, I assure you, you do not wish to be within 15 feet of when it detonates.

Second - what possible reason could anyone have to launch an invasion?

 

[WyandotteTX]

Q, I think he was making a reference to the 80s movie called "Red Dawn" where the Soviets in conjunction with Cuba invade the US thru Mexico. Patrick Swayze and Charlie Sheen were in that movie as rebels fighting against the invasion by doing the things you were referring to. An enjoyable movie, Ive seen it many times.......If you havent seen it, I imagine you would probably love it.

 

[Q9]

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Ah. I'm completely out of touch with popular culture, and I sure as heck don't know the names of most actors, especially older ones.

I'm more likely to notice the composer of the film's soundtrack.

I've wanted to see Red Dawn for a while, but for some bizarre reason none of the movie rental places have it.

 

[WyandotteTX]

Look on Netflix for it, heck even look on Youtube you might see some of it or all of it.....
Popular culture seems to be a bit more of my generation I think sometimes...

 

[Msbear]

I will try and catch it. Our farm is located right in the heat of it adjacent to the Antietam Battlefield. We have old letters that told of our home being used as a field hospital... probably like most homes around here in order to deal with the high numbers of casualties. It's really interesting for me to see some of the old photos and hear the stories because many of the places they refer to are so close.

One story about the first owner of this farm.... His wife and two daughters were lost to cholera during the war and it was just him and two other daughters when his farm was taken over by soldiers. They camped out, ate all of his livestock and left with his horses including his daughter's pony. He traveled to Winchester, VA. to buy the pony back not once but twice.. the second time the soldier's came, he managed to hide some of his livestock in the basement. They would put down feed sacks to keep the animals quiet. scarey stuff.

 

[WyandotteTX]

Msbear, that is one thing about the series. Any politics aside that you may believe in, there are a multitude of photos from all across the war on both sides that are used in this documentary. Lots of original sources, letters, etc that are interwoven into the story. Its part of the reason I enjoy it so much, that is tells real stories of real people that participated in the war.

 

[Dunkopf]

Well Q. Weakness invites invasion. A land mass the size of the US divided into 48 different countries wouldn't be that hard to invade. At the present we have an excellent military with fantastic shore defenses as well as satellite capabilities beyond any other country. I was indeed referring to Red Dawn. Good entertainment but in no way even a remote possibility. The only realistic threat we have had since the revolution was from the USSR. We were a little weak prior to Pearl Harbor, but have not been since then.

If the 48 states each provided their own defense, the eastern and western seaboard would bear the largest expense. The inner states would tell them what they could do with it when they asked for help. Corporations would move inland to avoid having to help pay defense costs. Every state would have their own stupid laws based on the ideologies of their elected officials. It would be a serious GF.

Fun to think about though. I imagine a libertarian would liken it to someone dreaming about winning the lottery. Nice dream, but will never happen.

 

[Q9]

Each state is the size of an average country. Switzerland is pretty dang tiny, isn't it? Even the Nazis weren't crazy enough to try and invade. They've effectively protected themselves for who-knows-how-long without having to fire a shot.

Again, however, what could possibly provide motivation for some country to go through the insane logistics of building up a transport fleet to cross the Atlantic/Pacific, in addition to a support fleet for artillery and missile bombardment, plus carriers to provide air support, with all this topped off by having to assemble an army complete with tanks, artillery, most likely helicopters, and as the icing on the cake, having to haul along supplies that insurgents would make sure they couldn't get without a fight?

Holy crap, that was the longest single sentence I've ever written. And, of course, this is assuming your assumption that the states would be completely unable to keep up a basic Navy and Air Force. I'm not suggesting that they have B-2 crazybombers or F-22s, but for Heaven's sake, a group of F-15s and A-10s would be more than capable of being a royal PITA. It helps that an A-10 is literally a giant chaingun with a plane on it. This gun, as Saddam Hussein found out, will merrily shoot through just about anything, including tanks, helicopters, and bunkers. Carries 1500 rounds, the gun's bigger than a Volkswagen. It's designed to be a flying tank, as well - if it loses one engine, it just keeps flying with the other and shoots the everloving snot out of whatever fired at it.

I am not suggesting, either, that the Navies contain our ludicrously expensive floating computers - I'm talking about rock-solid Iowa-class battleships, ships that laugh at our modern Navy's puny excuses for cannons (five inch diameter "cannons?" REALLY? Iowas have SIXTEEN inch diameter cannons). An Iowa can take six cruise missiles to the superstructure before it even slows down, too. They're also practically floating anti-aircraft installations - the sheer number of missiles and AA guns you can fit on them is terrifying! An old-fashioned 16-inch shell would make a nice, warm welcome for anyone stupid enough to attack. It sums up my idea of a good defense - simple, straightforward, and effective. It throws a huge honking chunk of exploding metal at a target, the target disappears. More targets show up, it throws more metal. It's DESIGNED to get hit. The designers knew it was slow, so they slapped a ton of armor on it.

Compare to the modern Navy (with the exception of carriers) - 5 inch guns, small ships, downright puny armor that has them vulnerable to just about anything that blows up, and way too expensive.

And I still have no idea what would motivate anyone to invade. Even if a state had NO defense, I can see no reason for anyone to invade, since in our modern global economy it's easier, cheaper, and better PR to obtain needed resources through trade.

 

[KristyHall]

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Countries invade each other constantly. Look at the world, Africa, central and south america, the coups, the fighting, the dictators, the religious fighting from northern Ireland to the middle east, heck look at us invading another country right now. Given half a chance people would invade us the first sign of weakness.

 

[Q9]

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Countries invade each other constantly. Look at the world, Africa, central and south america, the coups, the fighting, the dictators, the religious fighting from northern Ireland to the middle east, heck look at us invading another country right now. Given half a chance people would invade us the first sign of weakness.

Yes - backwards, third-world nations with crazy dictators do tend to attack neighboring backwards third-world nations. Last time I checked, the only two countries neighborng us were Canada and Mexico, neither of which are very capable of fighting a prolonged war on the offensive, and neither of which has a crazy dictator. No country with motivation to attack us has anywhere close to enough resources to cross a very' ocean with an invasion fleet sufficient to conquer anything. When it comes to advanced, civilized countries, it's generally well-known that the only countries they invade are backwards countries - and even then, it's under the pretense of "peacekeeping" or some other BS, and they install a puppet ruler. It's too much cost for too little gain to launch a massive attack.