Anyone non-religious here? Please be nice!

[MoSo]

I'm not particularly religious, defined as: I don't actively worship anything. I don't actively disbelieve, but I don't particularly believe, either. I grew up in a non-religious family, to the horror of my very religious aunts/grandmothers, who took turns dragging me to their churches. Alternating Roman Catholic, Southern Baptist and a sort of fringe evangelical (can't remember what they called themselves, but there was talking in tongues, etc), and hearing in each church that only THEY had the way to heaven and everyone else was a sinner condemned to hell pretty much put me off the lot of them.

On the other hand, I do see life and spirit in pretty much everything around me. It's not always kind or nice, but it's all got a fierce beauty.

My newest neighbors are extremely religious (some offshoot Christian sect, probably evangelical) and it somehow offends them that we aren't - got into that old chestnut about it not being possible to be a moral upright person without religion, as though, without the threat the direct punishment (hell), everyone would somehow be a cruel thief and liar. Sigh. Our neighborhood is small (maybe 12 houses on 200 acres, with about half the houses being "summer people") and most of the neighbors are just ignoring them now. I think they saw themselves as missionaries to the development and are bewildered about why they are getting the cold shoulder. Perhaps it's because they are smug, obnoxious busybodies? No, they are sure it's because they are persecuted Christians.

 

[KDbeads]

I'm looking back over this thread and seeing how we've all put ourselves out there and I have to say, I'm impressed at how well we've handled this!

As for the totally rural setting for me..... the intolerance is the only down side to living out here. I've lived in Chicago and Atlanta, and while I was at home with many of the people I couldn't take the city. Really, it was claustrophobic and polluted and 24/7 and noisy and well I could go on and one but you get the idea. So as soon as I win that lottery I'm buying the biggest ranch out here, putting up 8' fences and will be even happier since people already give me a wide berth

They have intolerance for education as well, there are 5 engineers in the county, we are 2 of them, the rest are in their 60's and 80's, most of the higher educated tend to live even further out than we do just to avoid the issues.
Though if you have money here in town... well you are part of the cliche, even more so if you are well off and attend the right church. I had to stop going to the local quilt club because of how clichy and money oriented it was getting. Nearly every week someone was wanting money for some church function/charity and while I enjoy helping out as much as I can there comes a point when too much is too much. When I voiced any objections I was reprimanded in a sort for not being christian enough to give more (here I am trying to figure out how I'm going to buy groceries for myself)! That's why I like the little quilt club I'm in now, the first rule is no religion and no politics are to be discussed in the meetings. Period. You bring any of it up you are asked to leave.

Religion and politics.... well that's why we are here aren't we? in the US as a nation instead of a territory. Because our fore fathers wanted a separation of church and state. There was a reason behind this, the reason was to NOT force religion onto those who didn't want it or had their own as was being done in England at the time. I don't like what I've been seeing with aspects of certain religions being forced on those who do not want it, it is disturbing. Religion and politics make strange bedfellows.

On with the non-religious program

 

[deb1]

Someone mentioned that the puritans didn't come here for freedom of religion. That is true. When some of them leaved in Holland they were offended that their neighbors were less rigid then they were. They came to America to set up their own community run by their religious principals. But they were very intolerant toward other belief systems.

What I find is interesting is how many of those who actually fought against the British and signed the constitution were Deists of some kind.

Perhaps I read this wrong but doesn't Texas want to remove Thomas Jefferson from their history books? He was a Deist but I don't know if that is the reason.

 

[Chicken Chaperone]

Quote:
No, I could not. My daughter's life is paramount nor would I sacrifice her to save my soul. It just irks me and the mothering instinct in me to keep my daughter's life intact overrules God's word. I just can't. Sorry about that.

No need to apologise, I feel the same even although I'm a father rather than a mother. But I don't think that there is any circumstance in which a god worthy of the name would ask that of you, despite what his self-appointed mouthpieces might say.

Bravo!!! Well said!

 

[Wifezilla]

Perhaps I read this wrong but doesn't Texas want to remove Thomas Jefferson from their history books? He was a Deist but I don't know if that is the reason.

"The board voted to enact new teaching standards for history and social studies that will alter which material gets included in school textbooks. It decided to drop Jefferson from a world history section devoted to great political thinkers.

According to Texas Freedom Network, a group that opposes many of the changes put in place by the Board of Education, the original curriculum asked students to "explain the impact of Enlightenment ideas from John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, Voltaire, Charles de Montesquieu, Jean Jacques Rousseau and Thomas Jefferson on political revolutions from 1750 to the present."

AP
The Texas Board of Education is dropping President Thomas Jefferson from a world history section devoted to great political thinkers.

That emphasis did not sit well with board member Cynthia Dunbar, who, during Friday's meeting, explained the rationale for changing it. "The Enlightenment was not the only philosophy on which these revolutions were based," Dunbar said.

The new standard, passed at the meeting in a 10-5 vote, now reads, "Explain the impact of the writings of John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, Voltaire, Charles de Montesquieu, Jean Jacques Rousseau, Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin and Sir William Blackstone."

By dropping mention of revolution, and substituting figures such as Aquinas and Calvin for Jefferson, Texas Freedom Network argues, the board had chosen to embrace religious teachings over those of Jefferson, the man who coined the phrase "separation between church and state."

According to USA Today, the board also voted to strike the word "democratic" from references to the U.S. form of government, replacing it with the term "constitutional republic." Texas textbooks will contain references to "laws of nature and nature's God" in passages that discuss major political ideas.

The board decided to use the words "free enterprise" when describing the U.S. economic system rather than words such as "capitalism," "capitalist" and "free market," which it deemed to have a negative connotation.

Serving 4.7 million students, Texas accounts for a large percentage of the textbook market, and the new standards may influence what is taught in the rest of the country."
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/texas-removes-thomas-jefferson-from-teaching-standard/19397481​

 

[deb1]

I guess that people still find Thomas Jefferson dangerous even today.

 

[Wifezilla]

Sad, isn't it?

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."

"Never spend your money before you have it."

"Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one."
Thomas Jefferson


Wow...what a radical

 

[SunnyDawn]

Quote:
This is the part of the latest news coming out of Texas that bothers me the most. If you think this is about politics and not religion then you need to study it more. The two are inseparable. Someone asked why we hadn't discussed it earlier? Because it terrifies me! And I don't scare easily. It brought up many images of times during the civil rights movement where people were stoning others because they tried to stand up for basic rights. I'm sorry but whoever said that churches have not been instigating these acts needs to get their head out of the sand and study the issues from a much broader spectrum. JMO

 

[deb1]

Quote:
This is the part of the latest news coming out of Texas that bothers me the most. If you think this is about politics and not religion then you need to study it more. The two are inseparable. Someone asked why we hadn't discussed it earlier? Because it terrifies me! And I don't scare easily. It brought up many images of times during the civil rights movement where people were stoning others because they tried to stand up for basic rights. I'm sorry but whoever said that churches have not been instigating these acts needs to get their head out of the sand and study the issues from a much broader spectrum. JMO

I homeschool so I can make certain to spend a lot of extra time on Jefferson with my children but I wonder how many parents don't understand that the decision in Texas might influence their children's education?

 

[deb1]

Here is another article about the Texas State Board of Education's decision

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gPQ3ktQNqImWyQ23yXKoCFXWrN1QD9ED9B180

An amendment to ensure that children learn the United States was founded on the prinicple of religious freedom failed.

What??

So Calvin is taught instead of Jefferson and there won't be an emphasis placed on the fact that our country is founded on the principle of religious freedom?