Anyone non-religious here? Please be nice!

[redux]

I agree with Ann; we are here to talk about our own spiritual beliefs or lack thereof; not to indict any specific religion.

That is a topic for a much-shorter thread.

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
I don't want to spoil this thread by going beyond what is acceptable to the Mods. On the other hand, I don't give a fig about how religious folk might react to my views on this serious matter. Leaving aside the appalling behaviour of those involved, hypocrisy amongst churchgoers and their leaders is one thing that caused me to turn away from organised religion. I know, of course, that not all religious folk are hypocrites and not all non-believers are genuine but what's the point in subscribing to an organisation in which people don't practice what they preach?

But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Luke 18.16 King James Bible

My interpretation of the early translation to 'suffer' means 'allow' or 'permit' as used in modern translations of the gospels.

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
Accepted, Redux, and the goings on are present in other Christian churches and creeds too. My underlying point is that the denial of responsibility for such wrongdoings is destroying the credibility of the churches. I've just said that hypocrisy is one of the things that caused me to walk away from my church many years ago and I don't think I'm alone in that.

 

[Prettiest Frog]

If those that spoke of responsibility were among those that actually took responsibility, the world would be a much better place.

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
But it seems to me that many 'traditional' religions don't talk about the responsibility of the individual. Perhaps I've misunderstood but they seem to instruct their followers to hand it over to their god, gods or church leaders. The spiritualist Church is one of the exceptions because one of its Principles goes like this:

We affirm the moral responsibility of the individual, and that he makes his own happiness or unhappiness as he obeys or disobeys Nature's physical and spiritual laws.

The full Declaration Of Principles of that church makes interesting reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritualist_Church

 

[DuckLady]

Quote:
Please keep on topic.

Redux, if you need this thread put back on topic with my help, please let me know.

 

[Prettiest Frog]

Quote:
Yes and no and it depends.

Take, for example, my much despised cousin. He thinks all forms of birth control should be banned. It is his firm belief that if you (by this, he specifically means the woman) choose to have sex, then you should take responsibility for the resulting pregnancy. This particular much despised cousin has two children by different mothers and is absolutely outraged beyond belief that he is expected to pay child support.

I see similar forms of hypocrisy on many issues, and not just among religious groups. YOU should take responsibility for YOUR actions, but I am not obligated to take similar responsibility for mine because (insert reason here). In religious groups, the reason tends to be 'because I am a member of X religion and thus responsible to X alone'. In logic and debates, this can be referred to as the special pleading fallacy. I often refer to it as 'someone should do something' syndrome. 'Someone should clean up this park', as the park-goer leaves their empty plastic bottle on the grass. 'Someone should clean up this beach' as the beach-goer tosses their cigarette butt into the sand. Somehow, it never falls to the person complaining that they are someone.

It's frustrating. I remember back where I grew up, there were complaints all over of the rampant graffiti. Letters were written to the newspaper, everyone complained around the water cooler. So some friends and I decided to volunteer to clean it up. We asked for donations to cover the materials we'd need to paint over or clean up the graffiti. All those complaints... we managed to raise enough money to repaint one part of the fence by city hall.

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
Yes and no and it depends.

Take, for example, my much despised cousin. He thinks all forms of birth control should be banned. It is his firm belief that if you (by this, he specifically means the woman) choose to have sex, then you should take responsibility for the resulting pregnancy. This particular much despised cousin has two children by different mothers and is absolutely outraged beyond belief that he is expected to pay child support.

I see similar forms of hypocrisy on many issues, and not just among religious groups. YOU should take responsibility for YOUR actions, but I am not obligated to take similar responsibility for mine because (insert reason here). In religious groups, the reason tends to be 'because I am a member of X religion and thus responsible to X alone'. In logic and debates, this can be referred to as the special pleading fallacy. I often refer to it as 'someone should do something' syndrome. 'Someone should clean up this park', as the park-goer leaves their empty plastic bottle on the grass. 'Someone should clean up this beach' as the beach-goer tosses their cigarette butt into the sand. Somehow, it never falls to the person complaining that they are someone.

It's frustrating. I remember back where I grew up, there were complaints all over of the rampant graffiti. Letters were written to the newspaper, everyone complained around the water cooler. So some friends and I decided to volunteer to clean it up. We asked for donations to cover the materials we'd need to paint over or clean up the graffiti. All those complaints... we managed to raise enough money to repaint one part of the fence by city hall.

I guess that sort of thing is human nature. Governments in the West have gradually eroded the notion of personal responsibility by taking it over in many instances. On the other hand, some things perhaps should be a community responsibility in a civilised society. Where to draw the line?

 

[Michele_Lynd]

Another reason I left church was I never understood the difference between prodestent, baptis, methodis,penocostil ECT.. I cant spell I went to al those church and I could not see one difference the same bible, songs, storys but the names why but they all said they were christions it was to confusing for me as a child

 

[redux]

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I think there are differences in the doctrines between these various sects. You probably have to really study each to understand how they differ.