Anyone non-religious here? Please be nice!

[deb1]

Xxx

 

[Michele_Lynd]

Im sorry if I said anything to upset anyone and if I did I hope they will forgive me, this place has been so great to let us express our differences , and get ideas and learn, not just about Chicken

(wich is a fav. subject )but how we grew to be the people we are today, even thou Im ecletic in my belives, starting out as a christian to begin with helped make me the strong mindded careing , loveing mom and wife I am .My life like many was not and easy road But .. I dont think with out it I would be able to handdle the things that come with my blended familiy ( 1mine 2 his 2ours ) but all mine for the raising, we say there are no steps in this house but the ones that come to the door

So again

Im sorry If I offended anyone

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
I'm sure that you didn't!

We all came here to talk and learn about poultry of one kind or another and it's good to see that space is given for some general community chat. This thread is amazing, especially in the mature way that different views and beliefs have been expressed with almost no friction. You are as entitled to your views as anyone else is to his or hers.

I wish you well with your motherly responsibilities. You must be learning more about the truth of life than any preacher can tell you. I won't even try to convert your to Turkeyism because children and chickens must be quite enough!

 

[EweSheep]

Quote:
Nope, not upset one bit!

I happened to watch the special PBS show of all the different religions and someone quoted (Dali Lama, I think) said that Islam is the worst religion subjected to violence. What he had said about ALL relgions, regardless of nationality, creed, race, etc. the bottom line was that we can find a common link to those differences we would be in a better place.

It is so much easier to blame others for the responsbility part.....some are looking for an excuse or a getaway from the problems that we all know we started it, directly or indirectly.

 

[deb1]

Quote:
There was another poster who was upset over this thread. Their post seems to have been removed. My comment was not directed at you.

I am very glad that all religions can come on this thread and not be proselytized but have their belief systems accepted.

Redux has done a great thing in starting this thread.

 

[Prettiest Frog]

Quote:
See, I don't see where the government of the west is to blame. Most western governments are democratic in nature, which means that they reflect the will of the people. Society had to have their notion of personal responsibility erode before being able to abuse governmental programs, and many more of the governmental programs are a result of personal responsibility eroding. It's like warning labels on appliances. If nobody ever tried to use a hairdryer in the shower, would there be a warning label telling us not to use a hairdryer in the shower? When enough people let their personal responsibility lapse, the government stepped in to take responsibility for the good of society. Large companies dumped waste in drinking water, and a regulatory committee was formed to prevent this.

There is this mindset, particularly among certain sects of the religious, that society now is the worst it could possibly ever be, and I just don't get that. Just a century ago, one in thirteen women in the US were dying in childbirth, children as young as three were working in mines, women could be lobotomized for speaking their minds, etc.... There is a trade-off. I'm willing to put up with someone like Kanye West being considered a celebrity in return for antibiotics, the right to vote, and the glory that is the internet. Returning to the past won't remove the problems of society. It may, at best, change which problems are considered worse.

But too often there just seems to be this attitude that it's one or the other. I'd love for every parent who wants to stay at home with their kid while the other parent works to be able to do so. I don't love this attitude that because I, a woman, would prefer to be working outside the home that I am single-handedly responsible for the collapse of society.



It comes down to that while I wholeheartedly support freedom of religion, I am adamant that freedom of religion includes and is dependent on freedom from religion. The government should not be favoring any religion over any other. Unless a law can be fully supported with only secular arguments, it has absolutely no business on the books. The word 'god' has no place on any government issued documentation or in any government required declarations.

I can tell a Christian that they are free to practice their religion, but if I also require them to pray facing Mecca 5 times a day, are they really free to practice their religion? If I make them acknowledge Buddha every time they enter a government building, are they really free to practice their religion? If I make them recite an oath to Vishnu every morning, are they really free to practice their religion? And if the curriculum of the school is heavily biased towards the teachings of Scientology, do they really have freedom of religion? And if the Native American holy days are the only ones allowed to have their message acknowledged and name spread, do they really have freedom of religion? And if I persist pressuring them to join me in my Pastafarism whenever the opportunity remotely arises, do they really have freedom of religion? If when they did something good, I congratulated them on what a Baha'i thing it was to do, am I not being rude towards their religious beliefs by assuming that they must subscribe to mine in order to be 'good'?

I to often see scripture in people's forum signatures that amount to the equivalent of 'believe as I do or you are a bad person and going to be punished for all eternity' and I find it rude, especially when the person with such a signature would be up in arms and foaming at the mouth if someone from an 'opposed' religion were to speak their viewpoint. I find it just absolutely disgusting how many people claim their religious freedom is being violated when they are prevented from forcing their religion on others and proselytizing to the unwilling. Not long ago someone I know was absolutely up in arms about an attack on her religious faith and how Christians were being discriminated against. Did some research, and the real story was that the Christians were opening a secular meeting with a Christian-specific prayer and a Jewish individual who needed to attend the meeting requested that the prayer, if there was going to be one, be more inclusive of other faiths. I try to be as open minded as I can on the issue, but I've really yet to see a single real incident of Christians in this country being persecuted and I grow a little tired of hearing certain subgroups claim that they are. Having someone disagree with you is not persecution. Having someone ask you to back up your statements is not persecution. Having someone tell you to quit preaching at them is not persecution. I got outed as an atheist in high school in the bible belt. Pull the other one.

I have a friend who recently joined Doctors Without Borders. His religious faith and strong belief in Jesus Christ led him to the decision that the best thing he could do with his life is dedicate it to helping others. Several years ago, he was having a crisis of faith, and came to me. And I encouraged him to stay with his faith and helped him wrestle with answers to some of the questions he was having. In my opinion, there are two types of religious folks. Those that are religious because they find strength and comfort in their religion and it helps them be a better person, and those who are religious because they think that being religious makes them a better person than you are and thus they get to control you. Faith is a good thing. Group-think is not. If religion helps you guide your life, more power to you. Please don't ever think your religion gives you the right to guide my life.

In my mind, there is praying for someone, and then there is preying for someone. If I complain about having a bad day, and someone says 'I'm praying for you', that translates to 'I am keeping you in my thoughts and directing some of my energy at hoping things get better for you'. That is polite, friendly, and loving. But if I mention that I am an atheist and someone says 'I'll pray for you to find the light', that translates to 'you are a bleeding idiot and I think your free will to believe as you wish needs to be revoked so you instead believe as I do because I'm a better person than you are'. And frankly, that's obnoxious and downright rude.

Religion can be a good thing. Faith can be a good thing. Everyone has the right to be free to have both. That means that no one has the right to pressure anyone regarding either. No telling them what they should believe. No forcing them to participate in acts specific to another faith.

 

[redux]

Prettiest Frog you summed it up beautifully.

You need to be in politics.

 

[Boyd]

Quote:
I shudder at the thought

 

[deb1]

Prettiest frog, thank you. You hit the nail on the proverbial head. I might even print out what you wrote because it sums up my thinking so wonderfully.

 

[mom'sfolly]

Nice post Prettiest Frog!

I particularly liked your contrast between preying and praying. The last time some one asked if they could pray for me, they did so in a way that was completely insulting and had me ready to hit them, literally and figuratively. Because they came to help a neighbor who is a valued friend, I held my tongue. But, I felt that the last thing I would ever do was enter the door of their church. The under tone of the prayer was that I was too ignorant to see that her god was the best, that my children were in danger, and that I should immediately put aside my foolishness and follow her to church. Yet when my dearest friend has offered to pray for me, I haven't been offended, because I feel her prayers will offered to lift and support me, not to change me.