Anyone non-religious here? Please be nice!

[EweSheep]

Quote:
In defense of Catholics, the Catholic Church does say that its followers don't have to take the Genesis account as literal. If I remember correctly, Pope John Paul II believed in evolution. I don't know where the current Pope stands on the issue.

Oh that is new to me about hearing John Paul II believed in evolution! I bet the Vacatian was howling!

 

[chicknerd]

Quote:
In defense of Catholics, the Catholic Church does say that its followers don't have to take the Genesis account as literal. If I remember correctly, Pope John Paul II believed in evolution. I don't know where the current Pope stands on the issue.

Oh that is new to me about hearing John Paul II believed in evolution! I bet the Vacatian was howling!

John Paul II was an educated man and as many Catholics do, separate fact from religion. (notice I do not say faith) I cannot believe many Catholics would take Genesis literally.

In most Catholic schools evolution is taught as an explanation of how God created things,in science class. Evolution and God can coincide. No one in the Vatican is howling. When I was in Catholic school in the 70s I was taught in theology class that Genesis was written from an oral tradition of the Jews. No Catholics believed that the earth was really created in six days. That was an oral mnemonic to remember a story of creation from a time where there was no written history. That was all. We were also taught that the excessive ages of the characters were representative of their importance. No one really believed anyone lived that long. The story of Noah is about rebirth after sin and that God forgives. They are there to teach lessons, not be absolutes. We were taught evolution explains how God created everything, in science class.

I know many VERY devout Catholics (I am talking several masses a week etc.) and not one believes that Genesis is real. Evolution is logical and man's way of explaining how God created everything.

I sent three agnostic/atheists to Catholic school. My youngest is graduating this year. No one at school ever preached that Genesis was real. It was taught in theology class ONLY, in the same manner I learned 30 years ago. Evolution was taught in science class. NO CREATIONISM in the classroom. Science class was for facts.

So far the only people I have ever met that take Genesis literally are fundamentalists (of any religion). And as the new Pope is and an academic, I am sure, he feels the same way.

NB - I am not a Catholic nor am I religious. But I am educated on religious matters.

JMHO, except for those facts....

 

[damselfish]

As someone who was raised Catholic & spent 12 full years in Catholic schools I have to stand up here...the Vatican would not be howling. In general, the Catholic Church takes a very non-literal approach to Bible stories. One of the things I do like about the Catholics is that they don't have that weird "science fear" that some other churches seem to encourage. You know: "Oh, all those scientists who believe in evolution...the devil must have hold of their minds."

What they consider to be base principles, things like abortion, they take a very hard line on. And of course there are many historical and current problems in the Catholic Church that we all know about. But you will find few Catholics, whether clerical or laity, who think that the age of the world should be calculated based on the number of guys in the "begats" section.

Edited to say: Chicknerd got in ahead of me, very eloquent too. Hi, Chicknerd!

 

[EweSheep]

Well I thought they would go against anything it does not pertain to the Bible. I am ignorant about the Roman Catholics and Catholics even I have friends that ARE. However they sometimes would "cheat" the religion system for their own benefit....does not want to have any more children or have medical issues-reason for BC.

Genesis got more holes in the story and it left alot of questions unanswered.

The "begat" sections was a laugh and a blur for me to see all those names that came up once and never heard again. Those people who has names that mentioned once, you would wonder why they were so important that their names were mentioned and you do not know who they are and what influence they had on the people around them and their family. What a pedigree that Joseph, Jesus' father, had at the beginning at the time he met Mary.

Off track here, would you consider Joseph, Jesus' father or would you call him Jesus step father or foster father?????????? Sorry I just do not believe in immaculate conception (sp) but it would not be unusual for Mary and Joseph to conceive a child out of wedlock or expecting a child before they were married. I daresay there are many cases but many of them may have "hurried" up the marriage plans so people would not kill or ban them.

Also, I am MOST curious here that I can not find anywhere...........behind the curtains, where do the priests do back in those days for sex (either for recreational or produce offsprings)??? Where did this no sex taboo started? I am guessing that King James of Scotland or King Henry might have started this "no sex" clergy back in those days to keep themselves "pure". PM me if you have very sensitive details of what the priests did, including the high order of Pope himself. I do not ever recall reading anything about a Pope marrying or having a mistress. Do the women they associated must be sisters or nuns?

 

[deb1]

If I remember correctly the early priests were not celibate. Celibacy came later. I forget which is which but there is a difference between dogma and doctrine. Doctrine can change but dogma can't(I might have the words wrong) The Vatican could allow priests to marry because celibacy is a doctrine. When Anglican priests convert to Catholicism, they can remain married and still serve as priests. So not all Catholic priests are unmarried.

The reason that I have heard for priest remaining celibate is that the Catholic Church holds both marriage and the priesthood as equally important. No one should have to choose between doing their priestly duties, such as performing Last Rites, and attending their children's games. Both are important and a person should give 100% either to the priesthood or their marriage.

Someone also explained to me that because Jesus wasn't married, priest aren't. But I like the first example best.

Here is an article about Angelicans becoming Catholic.

http://insidecatholic.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6837&Itemid=48

I think when discussing the Catholic Church it is important to realize that Catholicism isn't 'bible alone." It is founded on traditions, bible and Living Magisterium. I don't agree with the Church's stance on homosexuality, only males being priest or the fact that nonChristians go to hell, but not everything that the Church teaches is bad.

http://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu95.htm

 

[EweSheep]

I've watched some show that Jesus was married.......who knows for sure? Could it be the years of his wanderings that he might have gotten married? I would like to see if the "Lost Books" would say something like that.

Thanks Deb! Off to read that link!

 

[deb1]

Quote:
I think that it is possible that he either was married or had been married at some point. Perhaps he was a widower. I have never understood why he had to be celibate in order to be the son of God.

I don't want to push the mods boundaries. So if we are discussing issues that make them uncomfortable, I understand if they delete this post. I hope that I don't come across disrespectful to other faiths.

 

[damselfish]

Just for the record, I'm not in any way offended by anything said above (of course, I'm not properly Catholic anymore either!).

It is interesting though. The very conservative positions that the Catholic Church takes on certain matters makes it look from an outside perspective that they must be very conservative and fundamentalist about everything, but they're really not.

My senior year religion class emphasized a holistic approach to the Bible...when the story was written, who was the intended audience, what was the surrounding environment like, how long was it an oral tradition before it got written down, how would what applied in that environment apply to today, or sometimes not apply...etc, etc. Very cool, really. Too bad earlier classes weren't like that.

In any case, getting back to non-religion, my basic stance is that I don't believe the central idea of Christianity, i.e. Jesus is the unique and only Savior for all, is correct. Everything else, like which Christian church is weirder/less weird than which other Christian church, is extraneous details.

<--- Waits for lightning bolt to strike me down.

<--- Hopes that someone or someones up there understands that I'm trying.

 

[Ec_Prokta]

I'm sort-of maybe Catholic. I only go to Mass on the days specified and merely say morning, night, and before food prayers.

 

[NurseDr]

So if this thread is "anyone Non- Religious" why are most of the recent post about organized religion and their rhetoric?