Anyone ordered from Sandhill Preservation before?

[Royal Blue]

Professional said

The standards were designed to describe the perfect bird. It is almost an unattainable goal, but that's what we strive for. They were intentionally designed to be difficult to attain.

This sounds very much like the beauty pageant programs I was involved with. No matter what you do you never seem to meet the standard. It always seems to come down to who you know. Whether it is birds or dogs politics control a great deal of the action. Yes it does take a lot of time and money getting the genetic traits you want, but the secrets to good breeding and the ability to breed a quality animal should not be left to a few. Come on people. Do we need to send a blood sample in with chick orders to certify it is blue enough first? Imagine, one of us, non-club members actually breeding a bird to show quality standards. Where do we go for help? The club will not look at our bird. Its blood isn't blue enough, or mine isn't. You've been to shows. The card on the cage tells the club who is acceptable and who is not. The so-called experts have already closed their doors.

When it is all over and everyone has congratulated you for a well bred bird, it still comes down to one important constant common to all of us...IT IS STILL ONLY A CHICKEN!!​

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Professional, I know several top breeders that gladly sell eggs or chicks. Reverend Paul Ashbrook sold me a dozen hatching eggs, just to see if I would like the breed, and I did. We then went back and bought a few more birds from him. He is one of the nations best breeders and he sold hatching eggs. As far as breeders not respnding to emails, I have found that the brahma people and the OEGB people are the worst. It seems that when I go to a show, the OEGB people stay in their area with their billions of crossbred colors with crazy made up names, and when you try to ask them about one of their birds, they ignore you or give you short answers in a mean tone of voice. We have won many best in shows, and got reserve bird in show at the APA semi-annual with our black sumatra cock. We also got reserve at the ABA semi-annual with a black east indie. We have great birds, and we reply to all emails and all calls, even if they are for something that we dont have. If you are kind and sell hatching eggs telling people that there is a small chance that they will get a show winner from the eggs that hatch, alot of them are happy and tell people that you are a nice person and willing to help. Why do you think that alot of poultry people dont get return buyers? It is all about the customer service. We had someone call that got our number from someone that bought birds before, they were wondering if we had polish, we havent had polish for ages, but we gave them a friends email that does have them, they were so happy that we helped them. If I email a breeder and dont get a reply, I tell anyone that wants birds from them not to go to them because they wont reply to an email asking for birds.

 

[hensdeliverthegoods]

I used to be a breeder of German Shepherds. While I was careful and selective about all aspects of breeding, raising, showing and selling; I never excluded anyone just because they were "novices". It was much more about their intentions and enthusiasm for me. If I felt that their intentions were good and they had the capacity and ability to raise one of my pups, I would sell to a novice. And I was always available to them for questions, etc. after the sale. If I chose not to sell to someone, I always took the time to explain to them why. I considered that to be professional behavior.

Why did I do all this? Because I love the breed and wanted to see the best representitives of it go on, thereby improving the overall stock. If any of my dogs achieved titles, that was wonderful but it was not the main reason I bred dogs. The reason was and is, love of the breed and a desire to see improvement in the stock. And I wanted more people to know and appreciate the fine aspects of a well-bred German Shepherd.

If I had only cared about winning trophies and keeping all my good stock to myself, I don't feel that would have been beneficial to the breed. Guess I feel the same way about chickens. The more people that have good quality birds, the better for all. So thanks to those breeders who are willing to share their stock and who reach out to educate us novices. I truly feel that you are the ones who have your breed's best interests at heart.

 

[speckledhen]

Many who are truly serious will want to start with chicks or eggs simply because they are not rolling in dough and cannot afford to pay $100 or more to have one high quality breeder bird shipped to them. So, to my way of thinking, some are saying that you cant be a serious breeder if you don't have lots of $$$ to spend at one time. Now, is breeding quality birds only for the rich? Isnt that a rather elitish attitude?
When I began sending some Blue Orpington eggs to others, someone commented that, if I continued to help others hatch these birds, they'd be more widespread and not as special. Well, I guess I could sit here on the hill surrounded by my Blue Orpington flock and not share it with anyone else, perhaps only allow other serious breeders who have the same breed to cast their gaze upon my birds, but why? What's the point? To say I have them and no one else can? If that makes you happy, then I guess it's all in what you want to do. I wont try to convince you otherwise. IMO, whether you get talked about because you ignore people you deem to be just hobby breeders, or you are talked about because someone didnt get the show bird from your eggs they expected to get, either way, your name is spoken of in a negative light. Guess I just wont ever get it.

**edited for typos because I typed too fast, sorry.

 

[scgamecock]

AMEN CYNTHIA.

 

[hensdeliverthegoods]

Quote:
I heartily agree.

 

[herechickchick]

Wow so many great responses from everyone. Professional, I understand everything you are saying and I see the reason for the exclusivity, but personally I do not agree with it. I fell as a breeder you have a responsibility to the breed you love to educate others interested in the breed. So you do not want to sell chicks or eggs, fine but that seems like a terrible waste of a breeders hard work. If I were a breeder (which I am not) I would be so happy if someone called me and said I DO NOT want hatchery birds, I want the best I can get. I would be on cloud nine because some one thought enough of my stock to want to obtain some hatching eggs or started chicks from me. As for the show birds, If you have the best then you should do well no matter who has purchased from you. In my e-mails I have made it perfectly clear that I do not want to start a breeding flock nor do I have any interest in showing. Now if they choose not to believe me then that is thier choice but like Cynthia said a simple "Sorry, I do not sell eggs or chicks. Thank you for your interest" would suffice. Now that is not what I wanted to hear but there is nothing I can do about it and I move on.

I guess I just would like all of these breeders unwilling to answer e-mails or phone calls to remember all of the people who refused to help them when they got started and remember how much it hurt to be ignored for no good reason.

Now I would like to say thank you to all of the breeders who have been very helpful in answering my question whether they sold me eggs or not. I appreciate your generosity and willingness to listen.

Thank you

Oh and I would be happy to pay $150 for hatching eggs if the stock is great.

 

[mountaintopchicken]

The serious breeder knows that other serious breeders, even novices, will have this fundamental understanding of how to go about breeding to lessen the chances of wasting their time. He'll let these mature birds go to someone who is serious, but he often won't waste his time with someone who is not, and the big tip off there is someone who is requesting eggs or chicks.

I don't think this is true across the board. I think there are some very good breeders who deal with hatching eggs or chicks.

Bev's Marans for example - Bev is known as being one of the best breeders of Marans in the country, and she only sells hatching eggs. Her waiting list is so long that you have to cool your heels for eons while waiting to get eggs, but a lot of people think it's worth it, I believe.

Of course its a bit of a lotto when you start with eggs, and you shouldn't expect every egg to pop out a standard of perfection. I would be interested in eggs from a very serious breeder, who has been running a wonderful breeding program for years, breeding out many birds every year and selecting only a few to carry on to the next, to make a beginning with a breed. I wouldn't expect each bird to be 'perfect', I would expect something I could begin with. I wouldn't think of it as "a waste of time" either - my interest is in learning about breeding and beginning to work with my flock, not in instantaneously becoming a winning show breeder. I'm thinking in terms of the long haul - being a person who, when I'm 70 years old, has a beautiful flock to be proud of, that I've worked a lifetime for, and that I can hand on birds to younger breeders so that a rare breed I care about will continue. Will I ever be that good a breeder? I hope so, I don't know, but the level of encouragement (very low) in Professional's posts makes me realize how hard this is going to be. Learning about genetics is very hard (I'm trying), getting stock is hard, and feeling dismissed is also off-putting, but I'm interested enough so that I'll keep hoping do get somewhere with rare breeds anyway.

The guy who wanted $150 for a dozen, doesn't really expect to get it. That's his way of discouraging the buyer from going about it the wrong way, but if he insists, then the breeder's going to make it worth his while.

Yes, he did. I don't want to give away to many details of the original e-mail I got, because I don't want to embarrass a breeder or make him seem dismissive in case he really did just lose my e-mail or not have time to respond to it. But yes, those were his prices, and it was a transaction he was willing to make. I had the impression he just didn't want to deal with my second e-mail. Maybe he didn't have time, who knows.

It's really just a whole mentality that's hard to change.

But what is a beginner to do, then? Leave the hobby? Or keep trying? No one starts from a high level of knowledge, and it's hard to make connections with breeders. Unless you start with a friend or relative who's already in the hobby, and can guide you, it seems you have to start by floundering about, doing what you can, reading whatever you find, and hoping to get somewhere. I just hope that there are a handful of breeders out there willing to give a noobie a break!​

 

[Professional]

Guess I just wont ever get it

I guess that this is what we can agree on. This subject always turns into "the elitist snob vs the backyard breeder", done so always by the backyard breeder, I might add. It shows a profound misunderstanding of of exhibition breeding. I've never said that there is anything wrong with keeping poultry for reasons other than exhibition, just that many who attempt to get into it via hatching eggs or chicks, have impractical, unreasonable expectations on how to get started, if they hope to succeed.

The idea that it takes a lot of money to get started is just false. All it takes is for someone to have a serious intent to begin to exhibit, with whatever birds he or she can find. After proving that they're serious, by continuing to try to show for a year or two, more often than not they'll have serious breeders finally take notice, and offer to give them quality birds, for little or no money. Contrary to popular opinioin here, by people who have not done it, we do not want to exclude competition, we want to encourage it, by serious competetors who are not going to waste both our and their own time.

Royal Blue, It's obvious that you particularly do not understand what it's all about. I'll just let you continue to believe that we get together behind closed doors and conspire about how to keep outsiders out. Politics is a part of any exhibition hobby. I've been involved with exhibiting dogs, dairy goats, poultry, pigeons, cage birds and rabbits, and I've seen closely how horse and cat exhibitors behave. Far and above, the most helpful, down to earth, friendly group has got to be the poultry exhibitors, folowed closely by the rabbit people. Despite some inevitable politics, it is nothing like you describe. If you'd try it, you know that. It is certainly nothing like showing dogs, cats or horses.

FMP, you kind of support my argument. As an apparent serious breeder, you understand that your chances of getting any show quality birds out of that dozen eggs are slim. You got them just to hatch and see if you like the breed, unlike those who are expecting to hatch out show birds, like I've explained. I know that there are a few individual troublemakers in Brahmas who have caused problems. Like I said, there is some politics to breeding poultry, but it is no where near as pervasive as many here seem to think. The OEGB breeders have always been a tough crowd, especially in the South, unwilling to even consider that other breeds exist. That is slowly changing, and I know a few breeders of them who are as gracious as you can find. For my part, I would thank you for doing me the favor of spreading the word that no one need contact me for hatching eggs or chicks. As I've said, selling them has no place in my breeding program, but that doesn't mean that I hoard my birds and refuse to spread any around to others who demonstrate that they are serious.​

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Of course if people just want to perfect a particular kind of chicken in their backyard for their own private pleasure or the pleasure of a small circle of buddies, that is perfectly fine.

Only, wouldn't it be nice if there were more (there are some, of course) serious poultry breeders who did it mainly for the love of the breed, because they think it's a really great kind of chicken? And don't have much of a problem with everyone else getting to enjoy that really great kind of chicken, too?

Having less-perfect examples of the breed out there does not impinge on anyone's show wins. It only impinges on peoples' ability to continue perfecting their own flock insofar as selling eggs/chicks gives you a smaller pool from which to select as you work towards the basically-arbitrary Standard. But the main effect of having less-than-perfect examples out there is just to reduce the rarity and brag-value of the breed (/color/whatever).

Breeders who genuinely believe their breed is a really terrific animal are common enough in other kinds of domestic animals. While sometimes it swings too far in the other direction towards overbreeding (and I am not talking about for money, like in puppy mills, I am just talking about overenthusiastic insufficiently-critical proponents of their fave breed), there is a really big happy medium that many people do occupy.

And certainly there are other hobbies (again, not all, but a number of them) where the most-experienced and winning-est people *welcome* newcomers to the hobby, and try to help them get a good start... again, because they just think the hobby is good and realize that other people might enjoy it as much as they do.

Be nice if there was a bit more of that in chickens as well, to my way of thinking, and a bit less clubbishness sometimes. Not always. But, sometimes.

Just my personal view,

Pat