Anyone trained their dog to stay away from chickens like this?

[Penpal]

I have been a dog trainer. I have taught people how to use the clicker and stay with them until they understand it. I used clicker to train my donkeys. I have not used a clicker in a few years, but I think it is a marvelous tool for people who have no experience training an animal.

I haven't used a choke (training) collar in fifty years. I've never used a shock collar, but I've always gotten compliance without one. Your dog looks like a Malinois. Very very smart, but also independent. You seem to understand what you are doing, but please realize that most people don't.

 

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

Be aware that you may have taught the dog to avoid that hen in that location. Maybe, if you have taught a lot of similar things in many locations, he can generalize but most likely, you have not taught the dog to leave any/all your chickens alone wherever and whenever they are.

For what it is worth, I think e collars can be used humanely and effectively and can be very good tools. Or not so much.

Yes! To avoid him thinking that it was only that hen that he has to avoid, I have been letting all my girls free range every day and then letting my dog out (under strict supervision where he cant see me), and then correcting him for going towards them in a 'hunting' (or even overly curious) kind of way.
For example, earlier today my dog got excited over someone walking past our yard, so he ran up to the fence and was barking; once they passed, he was trotting back to the door to come inside but then pivoted towards to flock, ears perked, hackles up, so I corrected him. He stopped and came to the house - I let him in but acted as if nothing happened. I will continue this under full supervision until he ignores them 100% for at least a month.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

I had real good luck with the "see-no-touch" method with our Sheltie when we got him. Not sure if I already posted this, so apologies if this is a repeat! He was 15 months old and practically feral at the time, very hyper, high-strung and reactive. We'd put him in the grow-out pen next to the chicken run for a couple of hours once or twice a day, and after a while he lost interest in the chickens. Here he is recently, picking out a few mealworms at snack time.

 

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

I had real good luck with the "see-no-touch" method with our Sheltie when we got him. Not sure if I already posted this, so apologies if this is a repeat! He was 15 months old and practically feral at the time, very hyper, high-strung and reactive. We'd put him in the grow-out pen next to the chicken run for a couple of hours once or twice a day, and after a while he lost interest in the chickens. Here he is recently, picking out a few mealworms at snack time.

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That's so cool that you had that success! Any advise you can give me for my situation?
"We'd put him in the grow-out pen next to the chicken run for a couple of hours once or twice a day, and after a while he lost interest in the chickens." Is that all you did? My guy has seen and ignored the chickens many times, but there is always that odd moment where he gets overly excited...

 

[BigBlueHen53]

That's so cool that you had that success! Any advise you can give me for my situation?
"We'd put him in the grow-out pen next to the chicken run for a couple of hours once or twice a day, and after a while he lost interest in the chickens." Is that all you did? My guy has seen and ignored the chickens many times, but there is always that odd moment where he gets overly excited...

Yeah, so when I decided to intro him to the chickens with no fence between, I put him on a properly-fitted medum-link prong collar and a 15-foot long line (cotton web). I turned the chickens out and then turned him loose, letting him drag the long line. I walked casually along beside him, moving toward the chickens. If he had charged toward them, I could have stopped him instantly by simply stepping on the line. He did not but just walked besde me, kind of confused. I even ran toward the chickens, which made them scurry away from me, but he did not react, so I was pretty sure I could trust him. But for the next few weeks I only let him out on line and supervised.

Now, if he HAD charged at them, after stepping on the line I would have taken hold of it and charged AWAY from the chickens. I would have repeated that several times and then coninued with he "see-no-touch." I might also practice Sit-stays and Down-stays near the chickens, with high-value treats for the dog as rewards.

 

[Penpal]

I taught my border collie "leave it" when he was a puppy. With leave it, he must turn away from whatever the item is. I used it when we got chickens and he learned right away. But, he was a border collie.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

@ChickenShepherd_6116 I just went back and re-read your OP and there's just one thing I would point out. When you went back outside after Ranger had received his first shock, you said he came to you. Did you praise him at that point? And again, the second time he got a shock while you were in the house, and you went iutside afterward, you say he made a wide circle around the chicken to get to you, looking at her kind of sideways, obviously going out of his way to avoid her. Did you praise him then?

In teaching my obedience classes, I used to encourage my students to think of a children's game we used to play called "Red Light, Green Light." A correction of any kind is a Red Light, and should ALWAYS be followed by a Green Light - praise! So as soon as your dog STOPS doing the unwanted behavior, PRAISE. That way he knows what you want of him. This is the principle of Clicker training, but you don't need a clicker to do it. As soon as your dog moved toward you and away from the chicken, saying "Good boy!" in a happy voice would have been an ample reward. You would have seen a smile, a tail wag, etc., showing he had "recovered" from the shock and was happy to be in your good graces. Always "catch him doing it right," as they say in the One-Minute Manager books. (Ken Blanchard, Spencer Johnson)

 

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

you say he made a wide circle around the chicken to get to you, looking at her kind of sideways, obviously going out of his way to avoid her. Did you praise him then?

I did praise him big time for that! When I shocked him while I was inside, and then he came to the door wanting to come in, I acted like nothing happened because I didn't want him to associate the correction with me. I would like to make it clear that I DO praise him when he is choosing to be calm near the chickens without a correction. I avoid having treats on me when I do this because he will just stay glued to me if he smells them. I give physical and verbal praise, which he loves. After reading your message, I will be more ample with my praising!

 

[BigBlueHen53]

I'm with you on the treat thing! I never train with treats.

And I really figured you had praised him at the time, it just wasn't in the narrative so I wanted to bring that out, it's such an important part of training!

He won't associate you with the shock unless you are right there when it happens. Timing is everything in training.

People say you have to catch a dog in the act to punish him because he doesn't remember what he's done ... that's not really accurate. If a dog didn't remember, for example, finding chicken bones in the trash, he'd never get in the trash a second time. You better believe he remembers! But you can't punish him three hours later because he has no way of connecting the punishment to the crime. There's no association there. He's sleeping peacefully on the couch and you come home from work. He runs to greet you. You see the mess and start yelling at him. Obviously you're mad about something, but what? What was he doing when you started yelling? Running to greet you. Well, maybe he won't do that again. Next time you come home he runs and hides. Uh-oh, you think, what did he do now? Oh, there's the trash again. You yell at him some more. He hangs his head and looks "guilty." Or does he?

No, he looks scared and miserable. Why? Because he knows he did wrong? No, because you're yelling at him.

There are ways of "catching him in the act" of getting in the trash when you're not there, by the way.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Sorry, I distracted myself. If you praise him when he comes to you after a shock correction, he will always assiciate you with comfort and safety. You want that. If/ when he gets shocked, he has no way of knowing you're doing it. So you want him to come to you immediately afterward. Praise him. Pet him. Good boy! He's no longer chasing chickens, so praise.