Anyone use this kind of antibiotic?

Discussion in 'Managing Your Flock' started by playswithfowl, Apr 12, 2009.

  1. playswithfowl

    playswithfowl One Earth!

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  2. gritsar

    gritsar Cows, Chooks & Impys - OH MY!

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    I haven't used any antibiotics so far *knock on wood*
    May I ask? Why are you needing to medicate them? Specific antibiotics are for specific illnesses. I believe with some there would be a withdrawel time on the eggs.
     
  3. speckledhen

    speckledhen Intentional Solitude Premium Member

    That's one of the milder antibiotics, I think, however, if you have something that actually calls for antibiotics like an injured chicken, I'd skip that and go with one like injectible penicillin. Gritsar is correct, that certain ones are for certain uses. I never give antibiotics except for deep injuries.
     
  4. Glenda L Heywood

    Glenda L Heywood Chillin' With My Peeps

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    RAISE HEALTHY CHICKENS
    you need to know that using medication to ward off the CHANCE Question on
    here is a article about the kind yiou are asking about


    here is some important information on using the medication you asked aboutmedications\\



    Terramycin & Sulmet
    Glenda L Heywood

    #1 I was asked this question:

    Hey, Glenda:

    I appreciated your response to my question about on the poultry forum about tetracycline dosage, but
    need some clarification. You immediate refer to "terramycin." Is that the same as tetracycline? The
    stuff I was asking about was Duramycin 10, a Durvet brand of tetracycline hydrochloride. It has on the
    back dosage amounts for treating chickens with crd air sac disease and infectious synovitis. As noted,
    my chicken has neither. The vet (on the phone, for free) said it could well be a uterine infection
    causing these soft-shell eggs and recommended a course of water-soluble sulfa-based
    antibiotic/tetracycline.

    An academic expert thought the problem might instead be a hormonal problem that will pass when this hen is finished molting. He predicted that she will soon stop laying entirely and then lay normally when she resumes.

    What do you think of the two theories?
    I am hoping I can better understand your advice, as I value your experience and know you've been caring for chickens a long time.

    #2 My Reply
    my response was for plain old tetercycline and is phyzer brand name terrmycin.Now Nathalie can better help here having worked as avet tech.the idea that the hen needs sulfa and terrmycin isstrange to me.
    One or the other.So if your going with sulfa it is Sulmet from the feed store and is 5 day treatment. see what bottle says. i guess give it to all the hens if you think they haveany cold or coccidiosis present.
    Now as for the urine infection though that strange when i read it.I never ever heard of it. I can't see
    for the life of me what it has to do with soft shelled eggs.

    I reread and she is saying a uterine infection.Does a hen have a uterus? I know they have the make up
    to make and lay eggs.These vets think they are treating cats and dogs. Mostbird questions go right over their head.

    Now if the hen is laying soft shelled eggs she needssome Apple cider vinegar,and calcium in form of
    agricultural limestone in a feeder. thus the ACV willhelp her absorb the calciumNow then you can buy some of the fancy oyster shellfor cage birds or pigeons and it is easily digested bythe hen.

    Had a lady give a small calcium pill every other day and helped her laying hen. But needs some vit D and ACV to use this also. PERSONALLY here if I was wasting my money on antibiotic I would go with aureomycin as terrmycin is not as good as it used to be. The one you have is the stronger tetrecycline- terrmycin.Should be okay. SEE what Nathalie says. Anixious to hear her thoughts here.

    Besure and keep me posted as to what the hen does or does not do and treat the whole flock with new oyster shell and agricultural limesotne and 2 tbsp ACV per gallon of drinking water.Now if medicating don't use the ACV just the medication till done and then besure and use a probiotic. Added thought how old is this hen? If she is say three yrs old she will start to lay soft shelled eggs.
    Glenda L Hheywood

    Her Reply;
    #3 Hi, Glenda:

    Thanks for revisiting this. I had started the apple cider vinegar in their water but quit while I'm
    putting in the tetracycline. Don't want to overload them. Also, it seems likely that that equation
    (calcium-phosphorus) would suddenly go out of whack when it hasn't been a problem to date.

    This vet is an avian specialist and knew the question referred to chickens. I'm actually not sure if they
    have a uterus per se, given that the eggs are incubated outside the body, but she might have been
    referring more generally to an infection of the reproductive tract. She recommended a sulfa-based drug
    like tetracycline, not a sulfa-based drug and tetracycline. (It it's not a sulfa-based drug, then I
    misunderstood her, but she definitely did say tetracycline.) Anyhow, using your suggestion of
    working backwards from the number of gallons the whole package would make, I was able to confirm that the dosage I'm using is probably about right, and in any case not too much. This is their third day on it.

    Because these softshell eggs started in mid-molt during very hot weather, I'm inclined to view those
    two factors as somehow involved. Either this hen (she's just 1 year old) does have an infection that's
    interferring with the late stages of egg formation or, as the professor suggested, she's just having a
    transient hormonal imbalance. Since she laid that last soft-shell Thursday night, she's had no more eggs. In fact, none of my molting hens now appear to be laying. That's fine and to be expected. I just want this one hen to lay normally when she resumes.

    I'll keep you posted, and please do let me know if Nathalie can shed any light on the subject. I've not
    been able to reach her directly and also did not want to pester her, as I understand her mom recently passed on.

    #4 Nathalie Ross's Reply

    Hey y'all. Sorry about the delay to the questions,etc. Thanks for understanding, too.

    On the vet's theory, first the whole sulfa-terramycin thing makes me nervous. I'm going to go around that first and tellyou my theory based on my gut instincts and research into this.

    First, I still stand by the fact that I think it's thrush, at least primarily. I think that what's happening is that the bird is showing the textbook cases of a reproductive problem due to either the original
    Candida albicans infection (remember, this is the same organism that causes yeast infections in women and we all know how that screws things up) or to a secondary bacterial infection because of
    Candida.

    Here in lays the problem.

    If you treat the secondary bacterial infection alone,you make the yeast worse. If you don't treat the bacterial infection, you make THAT worse. I would like for the veterinarian to have considered prescribing an antibiotic that could be used in conjunction with Nystatin, which I also would have liked to have seen her prescribe. Nystatin is the best medicine that you can get for thrush.

    (By the way, if you see external sores on the vent, or redness there - a sure sign of thrush - then you can apply athelete's foot creme to the vent itself). That's how I would have handled the situation as a vet along with prescribing probiotics during the period of medication and for a week thereafter, a probiotic
    containing B. bifidum and L. acidophilus specifically as that combination is well proven to help fight against C.albicans.

    Note, probiotics can't do it alone. The Candida either has to be acidified out of the system AND bacteria used, or it has to be medicated out of the system and replenishing bacteria used.

    As for why this turns up at moult, I think it's chicken-PMS (Pre MOULT syndrome).

    Remember, moult time is an awful time for the birds. It's when they're most likely to come down with something because it's both stressful and immune-system-compromising. ~First, they're losing their external cover whichregulates their temperature and protects their skin (the largest organ and most important one immunologically).

    ~Second, it's painful and since our chickens don't come with reasoning abilities, they can't just say "Oh it's PMS time again - this will pass". They realize they're compromised, in pain, and stress out which of course in any animal with as quick a metabolism as birds have can be problematic. The pain can be reduced by misting the incoming feathers very lightly with distilled water as that softens the pins and skin to help the pins come out more smoothly. I would think something relatively the size of a thin writing pen coming out of one's skin would be terribly painful.

    ~Third, stress causes a higher probability that eggs are going to be laid before they're quite ready (the 'hiccup' theory of soft shelled eggs).~Fourth, the nutritional needs of a moulting bird are
    much greater than one that is simply existing. They're using up lots of minerals and vitamins and other bits to make those feathers. At the first sign of moult, I would put my gals on ACV, probiotics weekly,
    the best food you can muster. Using yogurt as your probiotic (try walmart for bifidum) will give you an increase in calcium that the birds could use. Try making a weekly mash with baby crumble, yogurt, and buttermilk. They'll love it, and the milk products will also give an increased protein. I'm willing to bet that if you do this, you can eliminatethe problems you're having with this bird if they're not caused by a
    physical defect.

    Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject. I'm interested to hear what you two have to say about them.

    Nathalie Ross

    #6 My Reply to Both Ladies

    I knew Nathalie would have this thought but she saysit better than I do.And thanks for the complete theory.Sure the vets do not know birds and they try but fail so often.My thought was if she wanted sulfa and anitbiotic why not tell what andhow much. Insteadshe was winging it and want'ed Cate to
    experiment and come and tell her for the next guy Well Cate i feel you ned to relate something about the thrush thing and how anitbiotics harm and make thrush worse. Now the fact tht it happens at molt time is worse as i figured.
    So thanks to Nathalie you can understand the answert here. Keep me posted so i can remember the out come of the birds.

    Glenda L Heywood
     
  5. playswithfowl

    playswithfowl One Earth!

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    I think maybe I will just stick with ACV. Interesting stuff though [​IMG]
     
  6. cockadoo

    cockadoo Out Of The Brooder

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    just to let you know that terramycin and Duramycin are one in the same ...
    learned that from a woman that has been doing chickens for a long time
     
  7. SpeckledHills

    SpeckledHills Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Not exactly the same , tho both are in the Tetracylines class of meds. I had some pretty good response to Terramycin ([FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Oxytetracycline)[/FONT][/FONT] in some CRD I was treating in some chickens but ran out & soon after got Duramycin (Tetracycline Hydrochloride). It didn't seem to be very effective, in comparison, at least for the particular strain of disease they had. I've had a very hard time trying to find Terramycin soluble powder locally...
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012

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