Araucana Lethal gene ?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by poultrykeeper08, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. poultrykeeper08

    poultrykeeper08 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Feb 12, 2008
    Agawam , Ma
    So now that i actually have araucanas and breeding could possibly happen this summer i thought it would be a good idear to know how to breed them .
    I alway hear that your not suposed to breed tufted birds to tufted birds . Lucky for me i dont have any tufted birds [​IMG]

    But with 3 dozen eggs coming i hope to have a few [​IMG]

    I do have rumples , partially rumples and clean faced tailed

    Will i be alright with them guys breeding ? I also read that The clean faced birds dont carry the tufted genes so with that does that mean if i breed my birds i will end up with birds with no tufts ?

    All and any info would be great . I know there are some great breeders of araucana on thei board
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
  2. klf73

    klf73 Mad Scientist

    Jun 1, 2008
    Maine
    you will not get any tufts if the parent stock does not have tufts. The rumpless has something to do with low fertility that is why many have tailed birds in their stock. From what I understand is you should have at least one tufted parent (that is why you need to come get this cockeral from me [​IMG] )
     
  3. Guitartists

    Guitartists Resistance is futile

    Mar 21, 2008
    Michigan
    They need only one copy of the gene to be tufted.. so if they are clean faced then they do not carry the tufted gene. Although it is very rare, but it can happen that they can have internal tufts that cannot be seen..... but I have only heard of it and I have no idea if it occurs enough to even concern yourself with the idea [​IMG]

    I ended up with a tufted tailed hen and a clean faced rumpless roo... I've been wondering... I wonder if it's better to have rumpless hens and a tailed roo so he can 'balance' better... any thoughts on the matter?
     
  4. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Homozygous for tufted is almost always lethal,(supposedly there is at least one documented case where it was not) with chicks dying shortly before or after hatch. Heterozygous chicks can also die, dependng on where the tufts grow, and what abnormalities they cause.

    Rumplessness reduces fertility, but when I had an araucana cock, he had no problem doing the deed.

    If you breed tufted to tufted 25% will have no tufts, 50% will be tufted and 25% will receive a double dose and not survive.

    If you breed tufted to not tufted you'll get 50/50 tufted & not tufted; none with a double dose.
     
  5. hinkjc

    hinkjc Overrun With Chickens Premium Member

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    If you breed tufted to not tufted you'll get 50/50 tufted & not tufted; none with a double dose.

    I prefer to breed this way, however those results are not what I have experienced. Even with only contributing a single tuft gene, you lose chicks in the shell (so 100% hatch is unlikely). 2 copies is lethal, single copy can go either way. Of the living chicks, you rarely get 50/50 and I find it is typically more like 25/75 with the larger volume being clean faced. The tufting gene is a difficult balance. I think if you are truly focused on tufts, it is better to breed tuft to tuft and take the losses, but you will also increase your odds/volume of tufted chicks in the hatch.

    I do find that tailed roos breed better than rumpless roos, when it comes to fertility. They seem to have better coordination and can use the tail to make the mark. Although I use both in my breeding pens, I find I have to test out a rumpess roo to make sure he can get the job done. There are some who cannot and I don't want them if they can't. If I use a tailed roo, all hens must be rumpless. If I use a rumpless roo, I use tailed and rumpless hens. Tailed hens are only kept generally if they carry tufts or have other great characteristics I am looking for.​
     
  6. poultrykeeper08

    poultrykeeper08 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Agawam , Ma
    breeder im suposed to buy birds from said i can breed non tufted to non tufted and still get tufted chicks becasue all araucana carrie the tufted gene ? Thats false right ? I need t least 1 tufted parent
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
  7. klf73

    klf73 Mad Scientist

    Jun 1, 2008
    Maine
    yep that's false. It's like the frizzle gene, either they are or aren't, there are no carriers.
     
  8. orcasislandchickens

    orcasislandchickens Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I breed tufted to tufted when I can.

    2 of my hens are clean faced and two are tufted. All of my birds are rumpless, including my rooster, and I am still getting good hatch rates. I don't trim feathers or anything. Chicks so far have been quite mixed, a combination of tails and tufts that is "all over the place". As far as the lethal gene is concerned I am after the greatest number of realy nice birds, not the most birds I can possibly hatch, and the pattern of the tufts does seem to be inherited. One of my hens is single tufted and a number of her chicks have inherited the same single tuft. Ditto my rooster's one down one up arrangement. I think it has helped me to start with a small number of birds. I can tell who's offspring are who's.
     
  9. geareduplyn

    geareduplyn Chillin' With My Peeps

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    The genetics of this breed is so convoluted I'm not sure anyone has a handle on them. Consider that this is a created breed. We had some original stock from South America and we have been adding outside genes ever since. I breed only from rumpless birds, but still get a high percentage of tailed offspring. In fact I took 20 plus tufted tailed pullets to the auction this past Saturday. Tails in my experience are the hardest trait to get rid of. Probably the bulk of my breeders are double tufted. I never use a clean faced cock unless he is extraordinary in every other way. Most of the problems with cocks not fertilizing the hens is a too short back. I have had tufted chicks from phenotypical clean faced matings. the only way to find out if they were internally tufted was to post them and I didn't go that far. I breed tufted to tufted on a very regular basis, and my hatch rates are in the 75% range which is acceptable. I hatch a lot of chicks, save the best, and cull the rest.
     
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  10. Hooterville

    Hooterville Chillin' With My Peeps

    What happens if your roo has a single tuft? My hatch from hinkjc resulted in:
    1 white, single tufted tailed roo
    3 white, rumpless, clean faced hens
    1 wheaten? rumpless, clean faced hen (will have to get updated pic--don't really know what color to call her)
    1 white tailed hen
    1 gorgeous rumpless clean faced black roo--he is spectacular!

    I lost 2 with tufts at about 3 days.

    Should I just leave this crew together or should I remove the black, clean faced roo? And should Lefty (the single tufted roo) be used for breeding since he has just one tuft?

    Thanks!
     

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