Are Guinea Hens good mother’s?

[R2elk]

Susceptibility to predators is not on the same level as maternal instinct.

The question is of the strength of a guinea hen's maternal instinct, not entirely on her ability to pick a protected nesting spot although important.

So, on the question of maternal instinct, wild guinea hens tend to have a stronger maternal instinct than captive bred guinea hens.

You are making an unfounded assumption. In the wild, a hen that hatches 20 keets and manages to raise 3 of them is considered a success. A domestic hen that hatches 20 keets and manages to raise 3 of them is considered a terrible mother.

Today I had a wild turkey hen show up with her 3 poults that were at least a month old. I guarantee you that she hatched more than that to start with. She is a success story for having raised 3 poults to their current age. She would be considered a terrible mother for raising so few had it been done in a domestic situation.

I had a turkey hen that successfully raised 14 poults last year. She had an advantage over the wild hen because her and her poults were isolated to a grow out pen for the first two weeks before they were allowed into the general population.

Your assumption that guinea hens in the wild have a stronger maternal instinct than domestic guinea hens has not been established by any studies that I am aware of. Both the wild and domestic hens would have to be observed under identical situations for any such study to have true value. It would also have to be conducted by an impartial observer to prevent false conclusions. Whether a hen is a good mother is based on more than maternal instinct. I have domestic guinea hens that have very strong maternal instincts. If allowed to raise keets in the wrong situation they could be considered bad mothers.

 

[Cyprus]

It's a pretty subjective subject, anyway.
I'm not looking for a fight, too bored to care enough for that.

 

[ColtHandorf]

My opinion is that through domestication, humans rather than natural selection have exerted certain pressures on the birds we keep. For instance, many years ago I had a breeding flock of Rhode Island Reds. One of the young pullets went broody and I allowed her to incubate her eggs. She incubated the clutch faithfully and was a very diligent setter. One morning I walked outside and from a great distance I could hear the distressed sound of baby chicks. When I reached the fence there were two chicks alone with the adults just roaming around not paying them any mind. Without warning the pullet that had been setting would dash across the pen to pick up a chick and sling it around before slamming it into the ground and moving away. I rescued both of the little ones who had been completely scalped and ended up passing away. The rest of the eggs had been abandoned. Now if that had happened in the wild, that hen wouldn't be passing her genes and instinctual behavior along to the next generation. That behavior would effectively die off with her. By artificially incubating and hatching her eggs however, I was potentially propagating the behavior in her offspring.

If you've ever read Micheal Crichton's The Lost World the situation is similar to the velociraptors on Isla Sorna. They were highly intelligent animals that had a complex social structure. Being raised without parents to show them the correct way to behave (think about the structure of a kill site in Africa, how a pride of lions or a pack of hyenas behave, who eats in what order, ensuring the young get to eat, etc) the raptors were highly aggressive with one another, there was no organization once kills were made and it was every animal for itself, to the point where they struck out at one another with a ferocity that resulted in the death (and consumption) of individuals. Very few young made it because the parents didn't care for them or actually preyed on them.

Another real world example would be a friend of mine who had a German Shepard. He was a young male. Her sister got a miniature dachshund puppy. The dogs were out in the back yard together so the puppy could go potty. Her father threw some scraps out the door and when they went out a few minutes later to bring the puppy inside, it was in pieces, having been torn apart by the German Shepard. That is a trait that would be quite rare in the wild. Watch wolves (or any wild canine) eating with young pups. They use body language to teach the youngsters their place in the social structure of the pack, but if an animal actually attacked and killed their offspring (like my hen) they are effectively removing their own genes from the breeding population.

So I've said all that to say, that guineas in the wild are probably great mothers despite the hardships they face when raising keets in a wild environment complete with difficulties from weather, predation, resources, etc. In captivity, or an artificial environment, the fittest, or most survivable birds are not necessarily selected for breeding by us. Therefore guineas in captivity may be great moms with large and successful clutches, moderately successful, able to raise a few keets to maturity, or abysmal mothers, not able to set or raise keets successfully. Some of that is because the "best", or most "reproductively fit" are not the only birds breeding, but also because we don't keep guinea fowl in a manner that reflects their wild state. Or environment and climate are usually much different than the areas they inhabit in the wild. And guineas are no where as domesticated as chickens are. They still have habits and instincts that have not been bred out of them. Those war with what we try to impose on them and can also create issues for a potential broody hen to raise a clutch of keets.

 

[Cyprus]

I couldn't agree with more with ColtHandorf.
I told y'all that guinea hens were probably better mothers in the wild

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

My opinion is that through domestication, humans rather than natural selection have exerted certain pressures on the birds we keep. For instance, many years ago I had a breeding flock of Rhode Island Reds. One of the young pullets went broody and I allowed her to incubate her eggs. She incubated the clutch faithfully and was a very diligent setter. One morning I walked outside and from a great distance I could hear the distressed sound of baby chicks. When I reached the fence there were two chicks alone with the adults just roaming around not paying them any mind. Without warning the pullet that had been setting would dash across the pen to pick up a chick and sling it around before slamming it into the ground and moving away. I rescued both of the little ones who had been completely scalped and ended up passing away. The rest of the eggs had been abandoned. Now if that had happened in the wild, that hen wouldn't be passing her genes and instinctual behavior along to the next generation. That behavior would effectively die off with her. By artificially incubating and hatching her eggs however, I was potentially propagating the behavior in her offspring.

If you've ever read Micheal Crichton's The Lost World the situation is similar to the velociraptors on Isla Sorna. They were highly intelligent animals that had a complex social structure. Being raised without parents to show them the correct way to behave (think about the structure of a kill site in Africa, how a pride of lions or a pack of hyenas behave, who eats in what order, ensuring the young get to eat, etc) the raptors were highly aggressive with one another, there was no organization once kills were made and it was every animal for itself, to the point where they struck out at one another with a ferocity that resulted in the death (and consumption) of individuals. Very few young made it because the parents didn't care for them or actually preyed on them.

Another real world example would be a friend of mine who had a German Shepard. He was a young male. Her sister got a miniature dachshund puppy. The dogs were out in the back yard together so the puppy could go potty. Her father threw some scraps out the door and when they went out a few minutes later to bring the puppy inside, it was in pieces, having been torn apart by the German Shepard. That is a trait that would be quite rare in the wild. Watch wolves (or any wild canine) eating with young pups. They use body language to teach the youngsters their place in the social structure of the pack, but if an animal actually attacked and killed their offspring (like my hen) they are effectively removing their own genes from the breeding population.

So I've said all that to say, that guineas in the wild are probably great mothers despite the hardships they face when raising keets in a wild environment complete with difficulties from weather, predation, resources, etc. In captivity, or an artificial environment, the fittest, or most survivable birds are not necessarily selected for breeding by us. Therefore guineas in captivity may be great moms with large and successful clutches, moderately successful, able to raise a few keets to maturity, or abysmal mothers, not able to set or raise keets successfully. Some of that is because the "best", or most "reproductively fit" are not the only birds breeding, but also because we don't keep guinea fowl in a manner that reflects their wild state. Or environment and climate are usually much different than the areas they inhabit in the wild. And guineas are no where as domesticated as chickens are. They still have habits and instincts that have not been bred out of them. Those war with what we try to impose on them and can also create issues for a potential broody hen to raise a clutch of keets.

I couldn't agree with more with ColtHandorf.
I told y'all that guinea hens were probably better mothers in the wild

I find the process of selective breeding as analogous to natural selection quite fascinating. I’ve also considered that it may not be the guinea mother so much as the father that needs to be engaged to brood keets. As far as I can tell, guineas have been domesticated for something like 2000 years, not so very different from the time of chicken domestication. It would be surprising if we hadn’t selected for certain traits in that span of time. I would guess that, at a minimum, we’ve selected for increased egg laying output. Since the advent of artificial incubation, it’s not surprising if we’ve no longer selected for setting and brooding behavior. Although we have few established breeds of guinea fowl, I would guess that different populations or strains now have different mothering abilities. I’ve also read several papers on the importance of the guinea cock to brooding of the young, in both domestic and wild helmeted guinea fowl populations.

Domestic https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0168159186901103
Wild
http://www.chinesebirds.net/EN/article/downloadArticleFile.do?attachType=PDF&id=19

In wild versus domestic flocks, the social organization seems fairly different, but in both, it was the male(s) that was primarily involved in brooding young keets during daylight hours. That’s quite different from most current management systems that are based on chickens. It’s also something that we have likely not been selectively breeding to maintain...

 

[R2elk]

I couldn't agree with more with ColtHandorf.
I told y'all that guinea hens were probably better mothers in the wild

What I see being said is opinion only without any proof of anything.

 

[ColtHandorf]

What I see being said is opinion only without any proof of anything.

I believe I stated that what I posted was my opinion. Although I'm unsure how my observations as they relate to my musings equates to opinion without proof of anything. I'm using my personal experience and anecdotal evidence from others who have kept them as well as text from various sources I've read over the many years I've kept poultry to formulate my opinion.

I don't think it is common practice to post links to peer reviewed journal articles now when answering posts on the forum.

 

[R2elk]

I believe I stated that what I posted was my opinion. Although I'm unsure how my observations as they relate to my musings equates to opinion without proof of anything. I'm using my personal experience and anecdotal evidence from others who have kept them as well as text from various sources I've read over the many years I've kept poultry to formulate my opinion.

I don't think it is common practice to post links to peer reviewed journal articles now when answering posts on the forum.

I was not accusing you of anything. You are welcome to your opinion. I was simply pointing out to the gleeful Cyprus that an opinion is not proof that she is right.

 

[cmfarm]

Just like chickens, some are and some aren't. Some are great and will defend and care for their babies, while some will hatch them and try to kill them. Just depends on the individual.

 

[Cyprus]

I was not accusing you of anything. You are welcome to your opinion. I was simply pointing out to the gleeful Cyprus that an opinion is not proof that she is right.

I wasn't being gleeful, but thank you for your opinion.
You can use the ignore button if you don't like my content.