Are you next?

[redhen]

I'm not questioning you at all.
I'm just going off what i just read.
Again, i have NO clue about this lady or her rabbits and their living conditions. Unless i actually know her and have SEEN the living area myself, i cant really say one way or the other.
But my gut instinct is telling me there is more to the story. Again, i havent seen her rabbits living conditions. Just cant see the county spending ALL that money on taking those buns if there was NO problems...
Just my opinion... and its usually wrong too.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/07/22/200-rabbits-seized-in-animal-abuse-investigation/

Another clip. White angora/angora mix (?) in that one with an unstained, healthy coat. They are claiming that the cages haven't been cleaned out in weeks. Hmm.

The Crime Stoppers animal abuse report system they keep mentioning:
http://www.ourdccolorado.com/crime-stoppers-partnering-with-colorado-animal-welfare-groups/
This video says this was their first tip. Seem awfully eager to promote that their first call was a 'successful investigation' with 200 animals.

Very fishy to me. Hope to hear any sort of solid information...

EDIT:
http://www.9news.com/news/article/209422/188/Crime-Stoppers-tip-led-to-rescue-of-200-rabbits-
And this one says that it is the first tip that had action taken on it. Which is it?

 

[SussexInSeattle]

I could not sleep at night if I had to live that same life as those people in Plague Dogs! And admit to that? Not in this lifetime! But I know for sure I would be dogging every ACO I ever even remotely heard about whether I knew the facts or not. Gotta make SOMEBODY look more like the bad guy than me!!! I would be very worried about going straight to Hell when I died.....

 

[wolftracks]

Thinking that a story is true or all the facts are there is kind of fantasy. Bad news sells and it always has. They only real facts will have to be shown in court, which so many will not be allowed in the breeders favor, but it sounds like there are people who know her and her business who are thinkfully going ot back her up.

What a lot of people don't realize is when you are working with breeding for quaility that you need to be able to produce and then cull what doesn't make it. Who hasn't heard of the term "Breeding like rabbits?" Most of those animals were probably being grown out in order to choose which should be bred and which to cull.

I have rabbits. nothing as large as an Angora, but I have Lionheads and I can tell you you can brush these babies out and within 5 minutes back in the cage they can poop and have a ball of it stuck to the frill or their feet or whatever. Then there are my grand daughter's rabbits. She had one red rex that can drink twice as much as the others his size. He doesn't rush for the bottle but he does for anything else. If you get close he comes running to make sure he has a treat. 90% of the time he will grab it and then leave it at the back of the cage for later. Then one of her others will rush the bottle like he's dying of thirst, when the bottle was maybe 1/2 or more full and we were just dumping and adding fresh cool water and acts like he hasn't had a drink in a month. And rabbits poop more than chickens. At least around here they do. Doesn't take long to clean a cage move to the next and look back at another mess under it. Not all of them are this way, but a couple of them are.

We had heavy rains this year. My rabbits are on a covered porch and it flooded more than once. I know what that looked like and how long it took to clean up, but I was lucky enough to be home and able to take care of it. Did this several times this year. 200 rabbits I'm thinking would have got to be on wire bottom cages. The rabbits they showed didn't look like they were wallowing in poop and urine. I bet the floors could have looked aweful and yeah it could have been from one storm. And that to poop and urine from a few hours and it could have looked horrible. Could have, but I didn't see a single picture of it.

If those animals are sick it's probably because of where they were moved. Are those volunteers there 24/7 ? Auto waterers hooked up? I doubt it and I bet some of those waterers are empty when they go in to deal with them every day. Bet no food either but then some rabbit shouldn't have pellets 24/7

Organizations like PETA don't want animals owned period. They pocket donation monies and although they are supposed to be in the business of locating homes and recuing, they have been charged numerous times with animal cruelty. What gets them off? Donations from people who THINK they are donating to a legitamite organization. Used to be able to give you the years and numbers , but a few years ago there was one big scandle about them when they had only adopted out something luke 7 dogs in a whole year. They said all the others had to be distroyed because they were not placeable. Thing is they were picking them up, giving them their last meals in the van and then killing them. They only got caught because they were dropping the bodies off in dumpsters. They media reported and there were articles on the web and PETA and their donation monies ahd them removed. When you have an agenda and the money to back your scheme it can go on till it's too late.

With permits I can see the problem, but then again when these same organizations work to take the rights away of others in order to cause a species to become extinct, there are those who can only see the organization's side and THINK they are the good guys, because after all they are collecting money and saying they are there for the animals.

84 degrees? It's been in the 100s here and the lowest in the 90s. My animals are in the shade. I don't even have a fan in my house let alone AC, so a swamp cool, which btw I think is even better than an AC unit, they were not being neglected. If that barn had been a disgusting mess, you can best believe there would have been a ton of photos.

I had to laugh when they mentioned not having an actual number of dead animals to report, but it was in the single digits. These people obviously can't count to 10. 200 several dead, but unable to figure out how many under 10 there were. It was the way they started it out, like it was a huge amount, but then after exaggerating it as usual they say single digits? Who doesn't see that?

These people were not doing thier jobs. The found a meal ticket. There are probably people in this organization that actually did the search. They pretend to be buyers, check the numbers, theres a website and they get the prices, times it by how may rabbits they figure or actually know she sells per year, so popular, makes money, they need a way to gain income. You hit the biggest and best breeder. Instant funds. First call my behind.

Not long ago I remember that there was a big deal about breeding chickens. They should not be used for food, there were too many.....really?? Many people here buy stock from the top breeders. They may not breed themselves, but having the best from the best is very important. Wonder if they thing only a handfull of birds are hatched out and they just all happen to be the best. Umm no. There are hundred to thousands of chicks that are hatched and grown out i order to choose the next seasons breeding stock. Others will buy birds from feedstore or what have you because the word BREEDER has a stigma attached to it. Well those birds come from hatcheries. They need to watch a few videos on youtube.

I don't understand the mindset of some people who think large numbers mean irresponsible or impossible to maintain. I'm old, in pain , depressed (the animals help with this) and grieving (help with this too) and my animals are cared for BY ME every single day. They have lots of space and they are clean, fed and comfortable.

OK wasn't the on paragraph post I had intended on, but gotta be me I guess.

 

[Sword]

Quote:
There's lots of reasons. Publicity is the biggest. Publicity brings donations, plus they'll get money from selling (oops, I mean "adopting out"

) the rabbits later. I mean, who's ever heard about these nobodies before this publicity stunt. Now lots of potential donators know about them. Plus, there are probably at least a few animal rights types who think they're dishing out high holy punishment on on a mortal sinner/infidel that dares breed animals.

 

[RHRanch]

With a proper rabbit set-up or system, a single person can care for 200 rabbits. Check this one out, its called rabbit tech and even has a waste disposal system. I don't think the lady had this particular system, but it may have been similar. http://www.kwcages.com/KWCage/index.html

 

[dewey]

There's an interesting article at the link and their letter to the Sherrif and tv news editor: http://www.raising-rabbits.com/200-rabbits.html ....below is just a tiny portion of the article...the rest of the article so easily debunks every charge of abuse, like so many of us familiar with rabbit care did when we saw the news video clip...

"This woman isn’t a hoarder and she isn’t an animal abuser, not by a long shot. She is a show rabbit breeder of livestock rabbits, and this is a lynching based on trumped up insinuations.

The whole story would be laughable if it were not so tragic....

...animal rights activists reject the term ‘animal welfare.’ Animal welfare presupposes the right of people to own animals. Such a presupposition puts the animal rights gang into full body shivers. They have one goal in mind -- to achieve a society where animals are not used at all. No farms, no pet dogs and cats, no zoos.

You don’t have to accept my word for it. This once-hidden agenda is now a very open one:

Here’s the irony of this animal abuse case: this breeder’s 200 rabbits were subjected to far worse abuse at the hands of the "animal rescuers." They stuffed the 200 rabbits in multiples into dog crates in ambient temperatures (89+F), where they literally sat in their pee and poo, and who knows whether bucks and does were mixed. Who knows if they bred willy nilly, or whether they injured each other.

And now the shelter is begging for donations of people-food to feed the 200 rabbits. If some of them don’t die of enterotoxemia, I’ll be surprised."​

 

[punk-a-doodle]

I don't get why to read all the comments before replying and what is meant by are you next?

Since the original article was local, and since the woman is a well known breeder and shower, there are comments from those who know her personally. There are also comments questioning what is shown in these clips. It's worth a read, whether you put any stock in them or not.

I really don't know anyone who has 200 plus animals unless they are fish and I would think it would be extremely difficult for ANYONE to take care of 200 mammals by themselves.

I know many people, especially when getting into cows and goats.

I myself took care of well over a hundred birds at the aviary I used to work with, all of which required specially prepared diets one to three times a day, some were on long-term medication, each bird required daily enrichment, daily cage and water bowl clean outs (and yes, we did the water bowls by hand), daily dumping and scrubbing of ponds for some, daily washing of all their dishes (again, by hand), etc. At my current job, I take care of over a thousand rats and mice a day. Some rooms are on water bottles instead of automatic waterers, some rooms require daily change outs. All require food and water daily, bedding enrichment, health checks for every single individual, every litter must be marked accurately, every mouse weaned or separated on time, etc. I plan on having quite a few animals myself on a farm/partial rescue, and I have no doubt that I can take care of them all properly because it's what I've been doing all my life. Before and after work, I am home taking care of my eight pets, which is less than I have had in the past. For a person who shows rabbits, like this breeder, you have to be heavily involved in your animals. At the other end, you can be a hoarder with, say, 13 animals. So no, number alone means little to me personally.

Who are we to demand photos so that we can judge an animal control officers actions to protect animals in their county? Sounds like they were doing the job they were hired to perform and I am sure when it goes to court the people that matter will be presented with the evidence.

Please do start questioning. Locally, we, as a community, question our police force and government officials all the time, regardless of the fact that their intended purpose is to protect the people in their county. Doesn't mean it always happens. We are the people who foot their bill and are directly impacted by their actions. If a media source is going to make claims such as this being a hoarding situation, heck yes, I want to see some evidence/any solid information!

WHAT IF the rabbits really WERE in dirty cages and and aggressively taking water?

And what if they weren't? That is the whole problem with this case. So far...pretty much no facts to go on either way (and looking up previous clips involving the breeder show only well-cared for rabbits and facilities...along with new clips). In one news clip CO's local head of the HRS was stroking one of the rabbits and cooing, "oh, so soft". It almost amused me as that is one indication of a healthy rabbit. But really, this whole thing just ticks me off until they present anything resembling a fact.


Also...is it typical to investigate a report a day after a storm?​

 

[coreybee]

Czech's_chicks :

My city neighbors called on me. They also stated I was cat hoarding, not feed or watering my animals, yaddah yaddah yaddah.

Animal control asked to come in...stood in the doorway and sniffed and said, OK your not hoarding, can we see the outside animals?

I was given a warning because my bichon/pom mix needed to be groomed (REALLY???) and I had not done my weekly bottle sterilization (summer) for the rabbit bottles.

City people need to get out of the county and out of our yards and business.

X2​

 

[SussexInSeattle]

This was your ALL DAY JOB. THis woman was AWAY, AT her JOB. Looks like no time for the animals. ALSO COWS AND GOATS DO NOT LIVE IN RABBIT HUTCHES

Also the very WORST part of this story, whether you think half of all the members of BYC knew her or not; EVERY time some fool overwhelms themselves with too many animals to properly care for every one of them adequatly, it creates BS laws and regulations that get strapped to the rest of our butts forcing us to abide by more rules than we already have to adhere to because one jerk couldn't be responsible and keep only the number of animals that they could adequately care for!