Arizona Chickens

[Demosthine]

Quote:One study was published in the Archives of Disease in Childhood and studied 11,000 children between two and four years old. The statistics are slightly different than the one I originally referenced, though. I'm looking for the original publication of that one.
Quote: Perhaps one of the best places to start for information regarding the benefits of raw milk is the Campaign for Real Milk website. In the Key Documents section, there is an article written by the Weston A. Price Foundation about the Safety, Health and Economic Issues. There are links to studies for how harmful pasteurization is, benefits in animal and human studies, raw versus pasteurized milk in pre-term babies and nutritional changes relating to the process. In terms of your specific request for the rate of lactose intolerant people drinking raw milk, you can the Pilot Survey of Cow Share Consumer/Owners Lactose Intolerance Section. It isn’t a true peer-reviewed study like much of the other information, but it is the only statistical source of information I’ve found for that.

 

[desertmarcy]

My partner is lactose intolerant but he can drink raw milk without the usual gastrointestinal upset. He tolerates raw goat milk even better. We are lucky to have a raw milk dairy in Arizona (Save Your Dairy). There is a lady in Tucson who runs a milk group so we can get the raw milk at cost ($10/gallon) without having to go up to Casa Grande. She is just doing it as a public service, really. She does not mark up the milk

. I just loved the raw goat milk when we had goats and the Nigerian Dwarf breed that we had has the highest butterfat, plus being a small breed dairy goat, they are easier to handle, house, and feed. But having milk goats will really tie you down, that's why I sold them. Now I am tied down with more poultry than I had when I kept the goats....all the goat pens were converted into turkey pens! Then I wanted more breeds of turkeys, so divided 2 of the goat pens in half, to make 4 turkey pens. Is it never ending?

 

[Angelray]

I was interested in expanding my homestead with a few meat rabbits in the spring & now really want to add a milk goat after reading Demosthines info! I dont tolerate most commercial dairy products very well, but love them so suffer thru!

 

[Demosthine]

I was interested in expanding my homestead with a few meat rabbits in. he spring & now really want to add a milk goat after reading Demosthines info! I dont tolerate most commercial dairy products very well, but love them so suffer thru!

Find someone with a goat to try the milk first. I hear it is significantly different in flavor and much sweeter from a higher buttermilk content. That's why it's used for cheese so much. It yields more cheese per gallon. Breeds vary dramatically, too.

 

[City farm]

 

 

The second problem is that the micro-particles reintroduced to the processed milk are readily absorbed in to the body.  Once there, they are able to be adequately suspended in the body are significantly less-usable.  Current research is indicating this may be a major cause of childhood obesity and the surge of “spare tires.”  One such study followed children at a series over daycare centers and found that the infants and toddlers given skim or low fat milk were four times more likely to be obese than those given whole milk.  The reduced fat milk drinkers were still twice as likely to be obese by the age of four.  In public schools, only skim or low fat milk can be served, severely exacerbating this problem!

Excellent, excellent info!       I hate that I have to buy regular milk products at the store. No raw milk or even organic available here. What few organic milk products are available where I live have been ultra pasturized and that is the nastiest stuff I have ever tasted.

Do you remember the name of the study of the kids and skim milk? I tell people that they feed skim milk to pigs to make them fat but they just look at me funny ;-=)

Like my grandma used to say, forget-about-it! ..she refused to stop eating REAL BUTTER & whole milk.. I could go on&on&on...

 

[City farm]

My partner is lactose intolerant but he can drink raw milk without the usual gastrointestinal upset. He tolerates raw goat milk even better. We are lucky to have a raw milk dairy in Arizona (Save Your Dairy). There is a lady in Tucson who runs a milk group so we can get the raw milk at cost ($10/gallon) without having to go up to Casa Grande. She is just doing it as a public service, really. She does not mark up the milk . I just loved the raw goat milk when we had goats and the Nigerian Dwarf breed that we had has the highest butterfat, plus being a small breed dairy goat, they are easier to handle, house, and feed. But having milk goats will really tie you down, that's why I sold them. Now I am tied down with more poultry than I had when I kept the goats....all the goat pens were converted into turkey pens! Then I wanted more breeds of turkeys, so divided 2 of the goat pens in half, to make 4 turkey pens. Is it never ending?

Very nice.. We are blessed to have a connection on raw cow milk.. The cow will be delivering her 2nd calf very soon... We can not wait...
I will be looking up your reference just to have the info..

 

[desertmarcy]

Find someone with a goat to try the milk first. I hear it is significantly different in flavor and much sweeter from a higher buttermilk content. That's why it's used for cheese so much. It yields more cheese per gallon. Breeds vary dramatically, too.

There are various factors that can affect the flavor as well, not just the breed, but what they are fed plays a big role. Think about goats grazing in a pasture with wild onions. If they eat a lot of wild onions, the milk will taste like onions. Also if you have a buck in the pen, the milk can pick up a bucky odor/flavor--not good. Goat's milk needs to be chilled down rapidly after milking, if this is not done, it will not taste good. We used to put ours in the freezer for a rapid chill down before putting in the frig.

And speaking of bucks, that is another issue: breeding. No kids, no milk. Yes you can buy a doe in milk, but she will dry up over time. Most people will let the kids have all the milk for the first month, then gradually start weaning them. Milk the does for about 9 months, then dry them up so they have a break for a few months before kidding again.

When I got my first goats, I was semi-clueless about the added costs associated. You must weigh all these factors ahead of time and decide if you are ready for the expenses and commitment. Here are some examples, not necessarily in order of importance:

1. Breeding: My experience with having my own buck started out good but went sour. Bought the first buck. He was fine. Bucks SMELL!
Had a blue-eyed doe and got a boy kid from her with blue eyes and decided to keep him unneutered, figured he could keep the other buck company. It is not a good idea to house the bucks with the does. The buck will pester them ALL the time. With 2 bucks, I guess because of the competition, the first one started to moan and moan at the does (in the pen next to his) and he would keep it up all day. It drove me nuts. If I were to do it over, I would have the buck pen way out of sight and smell of the does. Not easy to do.

So if you do not want your own buck (which is a good idea), know ahead of time that you will be able to get your does bred. And I purposely put does in plural, because to be a responsible goat keeper, you need at least two. Goats are herd animals and need company. Would you keep just one chicken in a pen by herself? NO! Neither should you have a lonely goat. Many reputable breeders will not stud your doe unless she has been tested to be free of a variety of communicable goat diseases. More expense. Oh, and you want milk, right? Well just like any animal, good breeding matters. Some people work to get nice udders and high production from their goats. Other people just have backyard goats. Which one do you want to choose for your goat stud?

2. Housing: Goats are notorious escape artists. Unless you want NO landscape, you want them contained. There is also a long list of plants poisonous to goats, many you might have in your own yard. They need very sturdy fencing. I put up 9 gauge chain link pens. Regular residential chain link is 11 to 11.5 gauge. 9 gauge is HEAVY, and the does still managed to bow it by constant rubbing against the fence. And these were small goats, Nigerian Dwarfs.

3. Equipment: the list of ancillary supplies is a lot longer than I had imagined, and buying new, they sure can add up.
---You need a good milking stand. You can build your own if handy, but the materials still add up plus time to build it.
---You don't want a lot of hair in your milk. That means shaving the udder. If you don't already have one for a dog, then you need to buy
a good animal shaver.
---You need a good iodine disinfectant to wash the udder before and after milking. Plus filters and a funnel for filtering the milk.
---You will have kids born and will need to think about what you will do with them. Most people neuter the males and sell them as
wethers. So then you need the equipment (and guts) to do that, unless you want to pay a vet
---Goats grow horns and it is a good idea to dehorn them as babies. Some people leave them on, but they can hurt themselves
and you or your kids. Maybe not intentionally. So you need a good dehorning instrument and have to learn how to use it.
----You need a good pair of clippers to trim their hooves. Left untrimmed, they can become lame.
----Vaccinations are recommended yearly, prior to kidding so the babies have maternal antibodies.
----Do you have a vet near you who knows anything about goats? Some do, most don't.
----Then there is another big list of what to keep on hand "just in case" when it is time for the goat to kid

4. Feeding: You want to drink the milk, make cheese, yogurt etc. Well junk in, junk out! Feed your goat well. Good grain = increased milk production. Alfalfa has doubled in price since I had my goats, and now they have allowed GMO alfalfa, so you have to worry about that now, too. You can't expect to just let your goat eat weeds and have good milk.

5. Vacation: Forget it. Or time it for when your goats are dry. Maybe you are lucky and have a friend/neighbor who will milk for you twice a day while you are gone. But consider this before making a decision.

#6 through 10~ How many things have I forgotten? I hope this helps any of you considering keeping your own goats. It is always best to go into something new with eyes open.

 

[Angelray]

There are various factors that can affect the flavor as well, not just the breed, but what they are fed plays a big role. Think about goats grazing in a pasture with wild onions. If they eat a lot of wild onions, the milk will taste like onions. Also if you have a buck in the pen, the milk can pick up a bucky odor/flavor--not good. Goat's milk needs to be chilled down rapidly after milking, if this is not done, it will not taste good. We used to put ours in the freezer for a rapid chill down before putting in the frig.

And speaking of bucks, that is another issue: breeding. No kids, no milk. Yes you can buy a doe in milk, but she will dry up over time. Most people will let the kids have all the milk for the first month, then gradually start weaning them. Milk the does for about 9 months, then dry them up so they have a break for a few months before kidding again.

When I got my first goats, I was semi-clueless about the added costs associated. You must weigh all these factors ahead of time and decide if you are ready for the expenses and commitment. Here are some examples, not necessarily in order of importance:

1. Breeding: My experience with having my own buck started out good but went sour. Bought the first buck. He was fine. Bucks SMELL!
Had a blue-eyed doe and got a boy kid from her with blue eyes and decided to keep him unneutered, figured he could keep the other buck company. It is not a good idea to house the bucks with the does. The buck will pester them ALL the time. With 2 bucks, I guess because of the competition, the first one started to moan and moan at the does (in the pen next to his) and he would keep it up all day. It drove me nuts.  If I were to do it over, I would have the buck pen way out of sight and smell of the does. Not easy to do.

So if you do not want your own buck (which is a good idea), know ahead of time that you will be able to get your does bred. And I purposely put does in plural, because to be a responsible goat keeper, you need at least two. Goats are herd animals and need company. Would you keep just one chicken in a pen by herself? NO! Neither should you have a lonely goat. Many reputable breeders will not stud your doe unless she has been tested to be free of a variety of communicable goat diseases. More expense. Oh, and you want milk, right? Well just like any animal, good breeding matters. Some people work to get nice udders and high production from their goats. Other people just have backyard goats. Which one do you want to choose for your goat stud?

2. Housing: Goats are notorious escape artists. Unless you want NO landscape, you want them contained. There is also a long list of plants poisonous to goats, many you might have in your own yard. They need very sturdy fencing. I put up 9 gauge chain link pens. Regular residential chain link is 11 to 11.5 gauge. 9 gauge is HEAVY, and the does still managed to bow it by constant rubbing against the fence. And these were small goats, Nigerian Dwarfs.

3. Equipment: the list of ancillary supplies is a lot longer than I had imagined, and buying new, they sure can add up.
    ---You need a good milking stand. You can build your own if handy, but the materials still add up plus time to build it.
    ---You don't want a lot of hair in your milk. That means shaving the udder. If you don't already have one for a dog, then you need to buy 
        a good animal shaver.
    ---You need a good iodine disinfectant to wash the udder before and after milking. Plus filters and a funnel for filtering the milk.
    ---You will have kids born and will need to think about what you will do with them. Most people neuter the males and sell them as
        wethers. So then you need the equipment (and guts) to do that, unless you want to pay a vet
    ---Goats grow horns and it is a good idea to dehorn them as babies. Some people leave them on, but they can hurt themselves
       and you or your kids. Maybe not intentionally. So you need a good dehorning instrument and have to learn how to use it.
   ----You need a good pair of clippers to trim their hooves. Left untrimmed, they can become lame.
   ----Vaccinations are recommended yearly, prior to kidding so the babies have maternal antibodies.
   ----Do you have a vet near you who knows anything about goats? Some do, most don't.
   ----Then there is another big list of what to keep on hand "just in case" when it is time for the goat to kid

4. Feeding: You want to drink the milk, make cheese, yogurt etc. Well junk in, junk out! Feed your goat well. Good grain = increased milk production. Alfalfa has doubled in price since I had my goats, and now they have allowed GMO alfalfa, so you have to worry about that now, too. You can't expect to just let your goat eat weeds and have good milk.

5. Vacation: Forget it. Or time it for when your goats are dry. Maybe you are lucky and have a friend/neighbor who will milk for you twice a day while you are gone. But consider this before making a decision.

#6 through 10~ How many things have I forgotten? I hope this helps any of you considering keeping your own goats. It is always best to go into something new with eyes open.

Demosthine & DesertMarcy,
Thanks for the great info. We will get some goats milk & products at our local farmers market & decide if its worth all that trouble etc. Maybe supporting their farm would be better for us!

 

[LadyKotaDoria]

Demosthine & DesertMarcy: Thank you both for all the info. When I was drinking milk as if it were water at my grandmothers it was raw yellow milk from a dairy friend. At home also yellow milk, do not know if pasteurized, probably it was. I remember the cream at the top and trying to be the first glass of milk, my brother usually got there first. We were supposed to shake the milk....... But then we would not get that cream from the top.
I have had my suspicions about all that we do to milk, I was shocked when I found out what they do to milk, in separating then recombining. I was about 50, I am ashamed I was so old...... Lived so long ignorant and assuming . . . . .

As for goat, that you. I had always wanted goats. Planed on it, took and read the Dairy Goat Journal (no longer available) read a half dozen books on Goats. Kept 1 book in particular I felt would be my goat bible when the day came. Thought that Washington State, Utah , and Oregon was were I was going to move to have my goats. I had my 2 breeds I wanted, both are designed for mountain climates similar to parts of these states. When I moved here, and found that land out on Re-max, I changed to Nubian because of the desert conditions. As for expenses, I had planed to start with kids, and a good dog. I had 2 Great Dans, but they are not good sheep (goat) dogs. I was also planning on a donkey, but worried about vet and hoof care of a donkey added to my goats. I was surprised not many farm vets. I couldn't find not one in '87. But I figured I was not looking hard enough.

Other states I have been in when I was driving a truck, I would pass farm vets all the time. Arizona, apparently is not that big on animals. Just look at our State and county Fairs.

As it turned out to day I will probably just go on wanting. Your reminder helped me get a reality check. Over the last 20+ years the reality of goat keeping has faded in my minds eye. Today at this time goats are not out of question, but lest realistic.

 

[Gallo del Cielo]

Quote: That makes sense about body weight gain and skim vs. whole milk. People drinking skim are more likely consuming more carbohydrates and fewer fats leading to increased fat storage due to increased insulin release.


Quote: Perhaps one of the best places to start for information regarding the benefits of raw milk is the Campaign for Real Milk website. In the Key Documents section, there is an article written by the Weston A. Price Foundation about the Safety, Health and Economic Issues. There are links to studies for how harmful pasteurization is, benefits in animal and human studies, raw versus pasteurized milk in pre-term babies and nutritional changes relating to the process. In terms of your specific request for the rate of lactose intolerant people drinking raw milk, you can the Pilot Survey of Cow Share Consumer/Owners Lactose Intolerance Section. It isn’t a true peer-reviewed study like much of the other information, but it is the only statistical source of information I’ve found for that.

I prefer actual science.