Arizona Chickens

[Gallo del Cielo]

Oh, if anyone in Tucson needs some Valbazen, pm me. I have enough to treat about 487 birds. It's a bummer that you have to buy such a large quantity.

 

[desertmarcy]

1) will apple cider vinegar in your flocks water hurt your garden plants and grasses? Does anybody know? Here in the Southwest we Can use a high acidity vinegar to kill off grasses and unwanted plants. I believe the,"garden guy," sells a high acidic vinegar for killing off weeds in the yard.

2) who does probiotics for their chicks when their first born in little? does this mean you can skip on doing immunizations?

3) what research is there to say it's a good idea to immunize your chicks from mericks and fowl pox after they're born?
Does that mean they're not considered organic meat birds or layers any more once they get the immunizations?

@desertmarcy or @ChuskaMtns ? Any other studied farmers here?

Our soil in AZ is so highly alkaline I do not think the small amount of vinegar in your flock's water will hurt anything. Vinegar is a weak acid.
Probiotics for your chicks may be helpful, but I've never found it necessary and it definitely would not take the place of immunizations.
If you are concerned about loses from your flock from diseases for which there is a vaccine, then by all means do it. It can be expensive since many of the vaccine vials are sold in multiple doses, like 100 or more, and have a short shelf life once opened. I think that is a big reason why more people don't use them. Marek's virus is ubiquitous. You can do some breeding for resistance, but vaccination will eliminate it from your flock. Both of the links below have a discussion about vaccination for these diseases:
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/poultry/neoplasms/mareks_disease_in_poultry.html
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/poultry/fowlpox/fowlpox_in_chickens_and_turkeys.html

As far as "organic", I can't answer that. You would have to look up what is required but if you are wanting to go by USDA rules, you can't really call your birds or eggs "organic" unless they are certified organic. You can say they are fed with certified organic feed. That is about the best any of us small flock people can do.

 

[ChinoChix]

We use ACV and have never had problems, but my birds are not free range. I do use probiotics for my chicks up til about 4 months (or they go to their new homes) as I believe it really does help to support their immune system. I've used probiotics for my dogs for 20 years and really believe in them. My older layers get them once a week in their water. I've had chickens for 3 years now and they are raised as organically as possible.
I don't vaccinate my birds or my dogs but they are at very low risk. I don't bring outside birds onto my property (I hatch everything) and I don't have any foot traffic. I meet customers locally.
Read up on the pros and cons of vaccination. I also only have about 30 birds at any given time, not a large scale operation.

 

[MagicChicken]

1) will apple cider vinegar in your flocks water hurt your garden plants and grasses? Does anybody know? Here in the Southwest we Can use a high acidity vinegar to kill off grasses and unwanted plants. I believe the,"garden guy," sells a high acidic vinegar for killing off weeds in the yard.

2) who does probiotics for their chicks when their first born in little? does this mean you can skip on doing immunizations?

3) what research is there to say it's a good idea to immunize your chicks from mericks and fowl pox after they're born?
Does that mean they're not considered organic meat birds or layers any more once they get the immunizations?

@desertmarcy or @ChuskaMtns ? Any other studied farmers here?

If you have so much vinegar in the flock's water that it hurts your plants it will probably kill your chickens before the water ever gets to the plants.

I do use apple cider vinegar in the chicks' water while they are in the brooder. Only a few drops of vinegar per quart of water. After the chicks move out of the brooder I stop using vinegar, because my big chicken waterers are galvanized metal and the acid will leach zinc out of the container into the water. That is not good for the chickens.

I don't use any other probiotics for the chicks. I use organic, non-medicated feed. And I don't immunize. If birds get seriously ill I cull them. Fortunately I have not had a major disease problem in the flock. I cannot keep wild birds out of the coop/run when the chickens are free ranging, so my chickens have to be fairly resistant to whatever they encounter. I don't cull for mild symptoms they get over in a couple of days. I do cull for problems that have a major or long-lasting impact. And I try to breed from the birds that had no symptoms at all. (This is where wing tags and leg bands come in handy.)

Be careful bringing recently vaccinated birds into an unvaccinated flock. With some live vaccines, recently vaccinated birds can infect unvaccinated birds and decimate the unvaccinated flock. Breeders in other parts of the country sometimes vaccinate for things we don't tend to have here. Do the research on different vaccines before ordering vaccinated birds (or bringing unvaccinated birds into a recently vaccinated flock.) Be prepared to properly quarantine new arrivals until any danger of disease shedding has passed.

 

[DesertChic]

Thanks to @moms3cuties for posting such great questions and to all of you who supplied such great answers. Very informative and helpful!

 

[pipemum]

...that's too funny @DesertChic the black one(Screech).. is very nice looking!

....I don't envy you,
I'm trying to figure out how to organically raise my chickens and not give them any kind of medications. I'm not sure if eating the food grade diatomaceous earth will be enough for a preventive or if you just still have to do seasonal warming. I want to eat my chicks without having to worry about any kind of junk being in them and passing on to me and my body. At least it certainly my goal!

Unfortunately, diatomaceous earth is not a worm preventative, nor a wormer. It is useless and 100% ineffective when wet. There may be some truth to pumpkin seeds as a preventative (I've only read that on this site, and there are very many highly regarded falsehoods to be found here), but seeds certainly don't work once the parasites are established.

 

[City farm]

im glad we dont have these cut trouble maker's around

 

[ChuskaMtns]

1) will apple cider vinegar in your flocks water hurt your garden plants and grasses? Does anybody know? Here in the Southwest we Can use a high acidity vinegar to kill off grasses and unwanted plants. I believe the,"garden guy," sells a high acidic vinegar for killing off weeds in the yard.

2) who does probiotics for their chicks when their first born in little? does this mean you can skip on doing immunizations?

3) what research is there to say it's a good idea to immunize your chicks from mericks and fowl pox after they're born?
Does that mean they're not considered organic meat birds or layers any more once they get the immunizations?

@desertmarcy or @ChuskaMtns? Any other studied farmers here?

I mix Probios powder in all the treadle feeders regardless of age when I'm worming. If you treat your birds for parasites with meds that are ingested, it's a good practice to keep healthy bacteria from dying off due to the meds.
Most people do not vaccinate due to cost. The vaccines are sold in bottles of 1000 doses, must be discarded the same day as opened, some cost a little over $100./bottle. I vaccinate because I'm being inspected so I can get my NPIP status and need to prove my flocks are vaccinated. I offset the cost by coordinating hatch dates with a couple friends, then we can vaccinate on the same day and share the expense.
DE and pumpkin will encourage a healthy system but you have to start with a clean, healthy system. They aren't wormers but preventatives. I use Valbazen, Panacur or Ivermectin, depending on what type of worms are showing in the slides. I also work closely with a veterinarian on testing and lab work and she pretty much guides me on any treatment needed as well as setting up my vaccine program.
I think every one needs to decide how they want to raise their flock and whether or not to vaccinate.

 

[MaddBaggins]

Took them about 10 minutes but they finally decided the open door was a good thing. Now their perusing the yard and scratching around. They're still pretty skittish and try to take flight at nothing.
It always cracks me up watching a chicken try to really fly somewhere.

 

[MaddBaggins]

It's so relaxing to come home from a long day and sit barefooted in the backyard with a glass of home brew and watch my chickens while my daughter has Jimi Hendrix playing in the kitchen.
How's that for a run on sentence.