Arizona Chickens

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FEEDING TIME AT THE ZOO

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This group of 3 week and 5 week Cornish meatballs just started on fermented feed this morning, and they seem to enjoy it!
 
I was going to put a batch of barred Rock eggs in the incubator today, but decided to give them to a broody hen instead. She apparently doesn't mind sharing her duties:

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Leave us alone! We DO know what we are doing!

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The impatient daddy!
 
cyborg said:
I was going to put a batch of barred Rock eggs in the incubator today, but decided to give them to a broody hen instead. She apparently doesn't mind sharing her duties:


Leave us alone! We DO know what we are doing!



The impatient daddy!
Click to expand...

HaHaHaHa! I hope you marked the hatching eggs so you know which ones to leave and which ones to remove.
 
ejcrist said:
Anyone get a "Nest Run" permit from AZ Dept. of Agriculture to sell eggs? I was thinking about it so I can sell the excess eggs I get from my 25 birds. After looking into it though, and whether or not you could classify it as a business for IRS purposes, it doesn't seem worth it unless you have economies of scale, like over 250 or so laying chickens. The reason being, if you have a small flock like mine it would be hard to justify it as a business, so then it would be considered a hobby. And as a hobby your deductions (feed and bedding in my case) would be limited to gross sales and then only the amount that exceeds 2% of your adjusted gross income would be deductible. Since my feed and bedding expenses would only be about $900/year I wouldn't be able to deduct any expenses as other misc on 1040 Schedule A unless me and my wife made under $45k a year, and even then you'd only be able to deduct a very small amount. Hardly seems worth it so I guess I'll just stick to giving extra eggs away. Just wondering if everyone else sees it the same way or if I'm missing something.
Click to expand...

Sorry to drag this back up, but you are missing something.

If you are an actual business (which is what I would recommend everyone have, regardless of size). you are engaged in the process of attempting to make a profit. It is well within your rights to fail miserably or succeed wildly, both of which will have to be able to be proven in the case that you are audited. That being said, everything goes into one "pot" and any business losses are deducted from your personal income.

Again, you have to have an actual LLC, C or S corp, etc. for any of this to pertain. I recommend an LLC, very cheap and easy to do.

So, if you spend $900 a year on expenses, but only show $200 as income, you have a loss of $700 which will be deducted against your other income. BUT, and here's the big BUT: as a business you will also have: fuel expenses, home office expenses, home office deductions, infrastructure deductions (you built a coop for the chickens, your business!?), meals (that new client insisted on going out to lunch), tools to maintain your coop, feeders, waterers, meds (yes, ACV), etc.. They are all deductible and will reduce your tax liability depending on how much $$ you make or don't. If it is used in the course of doing business, it is deductible. On your forms there is a "Total tax liability" line, all of these things reduce that number.

For several years as a new business you will be able to take a paper loss (within reason) and always be able to write off deductions, depreciation, expenses, etc.. After (insert CPA advice here) years you will need to show a profit(ish) if you want to continue to operate unnoticed to the IRS. We spent several years at a loss (business) only because of depreciation, even though there was a decent profit. It's all about numbers and paper.

Just FYI, I don't do my taxes anymore but have an extremely competent CPA who is always on our side and, just, well, kicks *****. Yep, we pay about $300 a year for tax prep, but I'd pay the guy double if he asked.


'"I don't get out of bed if I can't write it off." Jerry Doyle 2014'

Words to live by.
 
azjustin said:
Sorry to drag this back up, but you are missing something.

If you are an actual business (which is what I would recommend everyone have, regardless of size). you are engaged in the process of attempting to make a profit. It is well within your rights to fail miserably or succeed wildly, both of which will have to be able to be proven in the case that you are audited. That being said, everything goes into one "pot" and any business losses are deducted from your personal income.

Again, you have to have an actual LLC, C or S corp, etc. for any of this to pertain. I recommend an LLC, very cheap and easy to do.

So, if you spend $900 a year on expenses, but only show $200 as income, you have a loss of $700 which will be deducted against your other income. BUT, and here's the big BUT: as a business you will also have: fuel expenses, home office expenses, home office deductions, infrastructure deductions (you built a coop for the chickens, your business!?), meals (that new client insisted on going out to lunch), tools to maintain your coop, feeders, waterers, meds (yes, ACV), etc.. They are all deductible and will reduce your tax liability depending on how much $$ you make or don't. If it is used in the course of doing business, it is deductible. On your forms there is a "Total tax liability" line, all of these things reduce that number.

For several years as a new business you will be able to take a paper loss (within reason) and always be able to write off deductions, depreciation, expenses, etc.. After (insert CPA advice here) years you will need to show a profit(ish) if you want to continue to operate unnoticed to the IRS. We spent several years at a loss (business) only because of depreciation, even though there was a decent profit. It's all about numbers and paper.

Just FYI, I don't do my taxes anymore but have an extremely competent CPA who is always on our side and, just, well, kicks *****. Yep, we pay about $300 a year for tax prep, but I'd pay the guy double if he asked.


'"I don't get out of bed if I can't write it off." Jerry Doyle 2014'

Words to live by.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with everything you said. My point of view at the moment with my current set-up of one coop/run and 25 hens is that I wouldn't be able to successfully argue that it's anything other than a hobby. Of course if I could I'd probably run with it. After running my own estimates based on what I think I'd need to get an egg business up and running (and profitable in a few years) I'd need about 250 good laying hens, so in my case I wouldn't even try to file a Schedule C (or become a LLC and file taxes as such) with less than that and expect not to be challenged on it. Of course the costs are highly variable depending on what a person considered necessary so each case would vary, but that's just my own estimate. I believe broilers are another matter altogether and you could easily argue that is a business since intuitively no one would raise, slaughter, and sell chickens all year long as a hobby - it's all work and no enjoyment beyond getting paid. I'm sure there's probably one or two people that might think of it as a hobby but I don't think it'd be hard to convince any auditor that it's a business. In both cases they're economies of scale obviously since the marginal income on each additional bird increases your profit, but I think the egg business requires quite a few more laying hens than most people have.
 
While working in my backyard yesterday I came across two raptors perched on my block wall eye-balling my flock from a distance of about 30 yards. I wasn't worried about the flock since I built the coop and run for maximum security for this kind of stuff. The gals were aware of the raptors way before I was because I heard one sound the alarm and they all gathered right at the coop door opening and were staring at the raptors. I walked toward the coop and they flew away. I never saw a raptor before that was like these two but they were definitely a pair. They were all black and looked like there was some white on their tails. They had very "hooked" beaks and light colored legs that looked longer than usual. I did a search and found the Common Black-Hawk (Buteogallus anthracinus) which looked a lot like these two. Apparently they migrate up here from Mexico and usually hunt riparian areas. The closest thing to a riparian area where I'm at is Lake Pleasant which is a good 5-7 miles west, so I don't think they're taking up residence here but I'm certainly no hawk expert. They could've been on their way up to Aqua Fria Monument as well since there's several water tanks and riparian areas up there. Anyone else have any experience with these guys? I'd be interested to hear any info.

Common_Black-Hawk_l07-54-010_l.jpg
 
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Does this coop look ok for eight chickens? Three of them are bantams. This is the coop I have but I'm getting two more chickens so I wanted to make sure it will be ok. It has three nesting boxes and I'll be adding a lot more run area.
 

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