Ascitis? Please help

[Kris5902]

Hmmm... probably not as aren't all/most of Tippies leg scales gone?
Does Tippie have lice...that would be the biggest concern?

Dusted her New Years with Carbaryl... so no, and I Dusted her roomate as well today during treatment. The nasty little things were dropping off dead and dying like mad as I was blow drying her. I decided to just let her feet be for now aside from the soaking/bath.

Tippie still has some leg scales, just practically nothing left on her feet and ankles.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

She’s leaking liquid...

Her abdomen is swollen but feels kind of hard, nasty runny poops she is straining to get out.

Could it be anything else, egg binding? Something fixable?

Still dripping liquid... but she shows interest in feed should I try to do anything with her vent?

You're having a rough time of it Kris, I do admire your determination to help these ladies any way you can

I agree with the other posters that she has a reproductive problem going on.
One thing I noted was that she is leaking fluid - is that coming straight from the vent or does it seem to be coming from the swelling - is that oozing fluid? (is the skin leaking)

I would say that she is suffering from Ascites which is a symptom of an underlying condition (I highly suspect a reproductive problem). Since she is not yours, then I'm not sure if her owners would allow you to drain her or if it would be better to leave her be. Draining is usually a temporary "fix" but might make her more comfortable since she is straining to poop. Likely swelling/fluid is pressing upon the intestines making it hard for them to function properly.
If you do decide to drain her the video is in the thread that @coach723 pointed you to.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/swollen-abdomen.1289236/#post-20901729 Draining can introduce bacteria/infection into the abdomen, so there is risk involved, if possible, antibiotics would be good, but I know those can be hard to come by.

I do see the point of view to go ahead and put them down too. A lot of times that is the best option. This is something you will have to consider - whether or not she is in good enough shape to try to give her more time or to humanely put her down. Each situation is a bit different. You are the one that's there and can evaluate her.
I'm very sorry that you are having to deal with all this. I know you care for these ladies. Whatever decision you make, it will be the right one.

 

[Kris5902]

You're having a rough time of it Kris, I do admire your determination to help these ladies any way you can

I agree with the other posters that she has a reproductive problem going on.
One thing I noted was that she is leaking fluid - is that coming straight from the vent or does it seem to be coming from the swelling - is that oozing fluid? (is the skin leaking)

I would say that she is suffering from Ascites which is a symptom of an underlying condition (I highly suspect a reproductive problem). Since she is not yours, then I'm not sure if her owners would allow you to drain her or if it would be better to leave her be. Draining is usually a temporary "fix" but might make her more comfortable since she is straining to poop. Likely swelling/fluid is pressing upon the intestines making it hard for them to function properly.
If you do decide to drain her the video is in the thread that @coach723 pointed you to.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/swollen-abdomen.1289236/#post-20901729 Draining can introduce bacteria/infection into the abdomen, so there is risk involved, if possible, antibiotics would be good, but I know those can be hard to come by.

I do see the point of view to go ahead and put them down too. A lot of times that is the best option. This is something you will have to consider - whether or not she is in good enough shape to try to give her more time or to humanely put her down. Each situation is a bit different. You are the one that's there and can evaluate her.
I'm very sorry that you are having to deal with all this. I know you care for these ladies. Whatever decision you make, it will be the right one.

Thanks for your support... she seems to be leaking from her vent, smelled nasty and the fluid was clear at first, then slightly opaque, dribbling down where the dirty feathers were. And her skin there is red and irritated, but no oozing or weeping from her skin. I tried gently inserting a finger, I only got to my first knuckle... about an inch, but felt no egg or shards.

I wish they were mine and I could help them more or make the call to end their suffering. A month of no eggs to treat the leg mites (chemically) and spare them the misery they are in? Done in a heartbeat, if it were my decision. These chickens are slowly dying, I’m just trying to make their lives better and maybe spare future chickens this pain. I haven’t watched the draining video yet, cell data resets midnight tonight... I will see what tomorrow looks like when I get there.

I’ve been doing the math... there were 12 older chickens, two new ones were committed to the coop for “crimes of egg eating” (their nutrition needs some serious help too) but there are only ten in there plus Tippie is 11. 12+2=14. 14-11=3 chickens that have died that I wasn’t told of since October... there are some major issues here. So, I’m a novice with a new flock, a rescue flock I can’t fully control, and no vet that will treat chickens.

Really it’s all your support and knowledge that is helping me, and these poor girls, through this. Because “oh, I try not to look at their feet because they are gross” is not fair to the chickens. You want to eat nice eggs? Then take responsibility for the birds that provide them FFS!

 

[Cragg Klefor]

Sorry Kris.
As already said, Ascites is something that is not curable. but there are things you can do to alleviate the discomfort at time. As you can't make the call to end her suffering, I think it would be only fair to the little one to at least try draining her. If no complications (which oftentimes there aren't any) it will really make her feel better. Short term, yes. But still.
You could of course just leave her be and see how she gets on. They can bounce back themselves for periods of time. I don't know where all that fluid goes, but it goes somewhere!! Or, this time it could take her. Impossible to know. Yet another difficult situation for you

I just remembered to say, one of mine had ascites, all I could get her to eat towards the end was a little cooked egg (boiled yolk, wouldn't touch the whites or scrambled!) or plain greek yogurt. She would only nibble at her own chicken feed even when soaked.

 

[aart]

Tippie still has some leg scales, just practically nothing left on her feet and ankles.

I contacted a young ag vet, that I've known from another forum for years, to ask about leg scales and how they grow and/or regenerate. She didn't know, and if the info was out there she's know about it. It was long conversation about different aspects of leg scales.
Consensus was: The larger scales grow out and are never shed or replaced, if too badly damaged they will not grow back, raised scales from mite infestation may never look 'right' again due to scar tissue.
That aligned with what I've seen here, bought my birds with SLM(my 'biggest chicken mistake') and have treated them to varying degrees. If caught very early, scales will return to normal, if not caught early you may kill the mites and clean out some to most of the frass but scale will never lay back down.

 

[Wee Farmer Sarah]

Thank you all so much!

I'm not experienced enough to help out, however, I'm so sorry you are going through this. Don't forget to take care of yourself.

 

[Shadrach]

I contacted a young ag vet, that I've known from another forum for years, to ask about leg scales and how they grow and/or regenerate. She didn't know, and if the info was out there she's know about it. It was long conversation about different aspects of leg scales.
Consensus was: The larger scales grow out and are never shed or replaced, if too badly damaged they will not grow back, raised scales from mite infestation may never look 'right' again due to scar tissue.
That aligned with what I've seen here, bought my birds with SLM(my 'biggest chicken mistake') and have treated them to varying degrees. If caught very early, scales will return to normal, if not caught early you may kill the mites and clean out some to most of the frass but scale will never lay back down.

There is a study on SLM. The study was conducted over a three year period. I did have a paper copy somewhere. I may still have it. I'll have a look.
I don't remember it saying the large scales don't regrow but from treating it here this seems quite possible.

 

[Eggcessive]

Back to the leakage issue, I wonder if the fluid is not coming from the ascites from some of the fluid being absorbed into the intestines possibly from osmosis. That is more a question that a avian vet or physiologist could answer.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Back to the leakage issue, I wonder if the fluid is not coming from the ascites from some of the fluid being absorbed into the intestines possibly from osmosis. That is more a question that a avian vet or physiologist could answer.

I was wondering about the "leaking". Kris mentioned it smelled bad, was clear at first then slightly opaque. I wonder if the fluid coming out is watery feces since the hen seems to be straining to poop? So much pressure in there she has no "control"?
Just speculation

she seems to be leaking from her vent, smelled nasty and the fluid was clear at first, then slightly opaque

Kris, you are doing the best you can. So hang in there. Let us know how she's doing.

 

[Kris5902]

When she did finally get some poop out it was almost explosive in its exit and bright green. I’m leaning to leaking urates from the liquids smell and color, it wasn’t the yellow from the ascites fluid for sure. It was definitely irritating her skin. I’ve asked the owner not to provide greens to them for a bit. Barring anything major, I am only going to be working with the two of them this week, the SLM on the other girls will have to wait while I heal a bit myself.

I buggered up but good last night, I decided to leave the building with the shower by the back door, carrying some laundry and another little roosting bar. I stepped on a rock i couldn’t see and turned my ankle really badly. I can’t walk, won’t be able to really work in the coop again for at least 3-4 days without help (not going to be able to catch the chickens in this shape, but Tippie and her new roomie are already in the crate). The ankle is swollen to double it’s normal size and has significant bruising. Possible fracture, but that’s a 2 day trip for the requisition and X-rays, so nope!