Australia - Six states..and that funny little island.

[Fancychooklady]

I really have no idea. The Vets clinic has a number of vets, is the only one for 75 kms so it's my only option. I am sure however that in a large rural area with chook farms and almost everyone having chooks, they must have some experience with birds. I shouldn't imagine there'd be too many vets in FNQ that are avian experts. But I do have to say, he fixed my birds who are all looking wonderful today.

That's great. Not all vets are equal, my equine vet knows nothing of birds. Avian vets specialise in all things avian and are therefore more up to date . I personally wouldn't feed the eggs back to the chooks.

 

[Anniebee]

Quote:
Originally posted by sjturner79

Love how it doesn't give a time period for withholding on the eggs. It's written like you could never eat the eggs from a treated bird, which I doubt.

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It can also be read as simply "DO NOT USE" ..... without a comma or a ' : ' ... "in laying birds where egg or egg products etc. ... "

That is very strange, as just above is the withholding period for MEAT ( Calves, pigs and poultry ), which is past 14 days. If I were a meat producer, I would probably go 21-28 days before butchering.

Being an amateur sleuth, I decided to track down as much information as possible about Trimidine. Here is a link to the dpi-NSW ..... and half way down there are two columns under the sub-heading of "Show and Backyard Birds" .... ( advice for Vets ) : http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/as...d-withholding-periods-in-backyard-poultry.pdf ,,,, This is a little more definitive, but also has a few 'buts' and 'maybes' in it.

It mentions allergies to the users of eggs after a WHP .... Apparently egg yolks hold residue of anti-biotics, and can do so for quite some time.



I also found the use of sulfadimidine with trimethropim is used for humans as well. Sulfadimidine is also called sulfamethazine ... And allergies were mentioned in the use of sulfamethazine. I cannot list here the many sites I visited, but could drag them out of my computer history if anyone really wants them.

I tend to think that all Veterinarians ( as they do before surgery on any animal ) require the owner of pets to sign a disclaimer ( as Fancys' vet had her sign for her roo ). It is a requirement by law as well, but would probably only apply to possible meat or egg producing pets - not cats or dogs. I have only ever been given a form to sign before surgery - and my pets have had umpteen kinds of anti-biotics in the past, including anti-biotics for Moppitt Silkie .... sadly she was too far gone for any meds. to be effective.

****************

As a matter of interest, I have Trimethroprim in tablet form in my med. cabinet right now. ( trade name Alprim )

I am given a forward prescription to cover the case of a new dose of cystitis to use immediately, ( handy for weekend uproars ) before it becomes ultra-serious and climbs into the ureters and up towards the kidneys ( which of course is dangerous ) ... this because I have had in the past, pyelonephritis in one kidney. Dangerous thing. Once I start the trimethroprim, I go see the doctor to report another bout, and to have urine checked.

Sulfa drugs used to be prescribed for bladder infections - came under the name of Bactrim or Septrim ... which I have no doubt you have either had or heard of in the past.
Sulfanilimide powder was used for external skin infections, but I don't think is available any more .... better external anti-biotic creams are used - especially a substance called Bactroban which I absolutely SWEAR by as the best thing since sliced bred. My doctor doesn't mind me having that on hand at all times ( it is a prescription drug - and expensive ), but I wouldn't be without it. It is BRILLIANT. Can be used on dogs, not sure of any other animals or birds.

Cockatoo bite - deep into the soft left side of my right hand - ( not the cockies fault ) .... I allowed to bleed, pressured, bleed, pressured, washed, pressured - and then applied Bactroban with bandage. No infection, healed within 3 days, and no mark to be seen where that large beak went in almost 1/2 inch.

The cocakatoo was more shocked than I was, and had to pry his beak out of my hand before he flew off !!!!

( and yes, it did hurt at the time ).

Leave it up to you all, to decide what is right for yourselves - and as both medications are used in Trimidine for humans, a word with your chemist might not go astray as well.

Cheers ,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Henriettasmum]

That's great. Not all vets are equal, my equine vet knows nothing of birds. Avian vets specialise in all things avian and are therefore more up to date . I personally wouldn't feed the eggs back to the chooks.

I will take your advice on that then, as I am quite new to all this. I will destroy the eggs. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Anniebee]

Annie this is the pic of little George as a chick. His mum crushed him in the egg and at this stage it was touch and go because he hadn't yet absorbed the yolk. One night sitting in the egg cup under the heat lamp saw him come good. So he is a special boy, still happy to sit up on the dogs bed and steal their dinner, just don't think he's ever going to be a daddy.

That is absolutely adorable. So glad you saved him - you probably lost a lot of sleep at the time ? No wonder he is so special ..... and - he just might surprise you one day

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In another post you mentioned Bactrim which is now out of favour here in Victoria it would seem .... as Trimethroprim is now given specifically for urinary tract infections - and for some other things as well, including Upper Resp. Infections. Doxicycline is the only thing that fixes me with bronchitis .... I am allergic to several anti-biotics. And I tolerate very well, the Trimethroprim.

Bactrim incidentally, is a sulfonamide ... in the same class as Sulfadimidine. Sulfa drugs are sometimes prescribed with Trimethroprim which is the way Bactrim and Septrin were presented provided a person was not allergic to sulfa drugs... but Trimethroprim is not a sulfa drug in and of itself. They most likely dropped the sulfa addition because of perhaps too many allergies to it, turning up.

I have posted a rather long story about all that - following on the withholding of eggs dilemma. You might like to have a read of it, as you too are 'into medical - and veterinary meds' as I am.

Cheers ..........

 

[Fancychooklady]

That is absolutely adorable.   So glad you saved him - you probably lost a lot of sleep at the time ?   No wonder he is so special ..... and - he just might surprise you one day 

....................

In another post you mentioned Bactrim which is now out of favour here in Victoria it would seem ( why, was explained to me by the chemist ) .... as Trimethroprim is now given  specifically for  urinary tract infections - and I suppose some other things as well, including URI.   Doxicycline is the only thing that fixes me with bronchitis .... I am allergic to several anti-biotics.    And I tolerate very well, the Trimethroprim.    

I have posted a rather long story about all that - following on the withholding of eggs dilemma.   You might like to have a read of it, as you too are 'into medical - and veterinary meds' as I am. 

Cheers .......... 

Thanks Annie. As with you , acquiring certain medical knowledge comes from necessity not choice. I am VRE and my resistance to vancomycin has nearly killed me several times . Antibiotics in our food chain is not as unimportant as most people naively believe. Not everyone that has pneumonia can simply go to hospital, go on a course of intravenous antibiotics and be better.
There are many studies on the period of time and amount of drug that is retained inside the egg, but as yet none have been definitive. So I'm happy eating my drug free eggs .

 

[Anniebee]

Thanks Annie. As with you , acquiring certain medical knowledge comes from necessity not choice. I am VRE and my resistance to vancomycin has nearly killed me several times . Antibiotics in our food chain is not as unimportant as most people naively believe. Not everyone that has pneumonia can simply go to hospital, go on a course of intravenous antibiotics and be better.

There are many studies on the period of time and amount of drug that is retained inside the egg, but as yet none have been definitive. So I'm happy eating my drug free eggs .

I do think more people should acquaint themselves with some medical knowledge. I don't mean getting on the Internet and finding symptoms which give you 137 types of illness, plus a fainting fit cos you are sure you are going to die. Just gain the knowledge. And as you said, for many, from necessity, not choice.

I have seen some dreadful situations, through sheer lack of knowledge. And personally, I blame the rising incidence of cancer, is due to the additives in our food - and particularly the pesticides on them - - - gawd, I even wash thoroughly all the inner leaves of vegies before giving them to the chooks. Outer leaves are chucked in the garbage.

More people should be learning to be more aware of prescription and OTC drugs, never be afraid to ask a chemist ANYTHING ( they actually know more than doctors about molecules and interactions etc.), always practice the highest routines of cleanliness ( my hands are those of a 110 year old

- I wash them so thoroughly so often - and I never touch food without first a thorough wash, I simply cannot ).

If in doubt seek a second opinion. Never be afraid to ask and ask questions. ..... All that and more. And the antibiotics in our food chain - absolutely a reason for ill health in so many. However, I think ( might have been wrong information though ) .... that the government in past few years, have come down hard on using anti-biotics in meat producing animals. I stand to be corrected on that.

Cheers .......

 

[sjturner79]

It's no different to the doctor handing a read out on the possible side effects of any drug, it's to protect themselves from litigation. Have you ever read the possible side effects of panadol?
It's a personal decision , there is great concern surrounding the secondary effect of antibiotics in our food chain. From what I understand, Bactrim is the human equivalent of trimethoprim and is used in urinary tract infection. Very few bacterial respiratory pathogens respond to it so it is no longer the antibiotic of choice. Without blood tests the vets prescribe it as a broad spectrum antibiotic .
Most upper respiratory infections are caused by ' gram positive ' bacteria that respond best to penicillin erythromycin and doxycycline.
But as I said , it all comes down to personal choice, some people would prefer to cull any sick birds from their flock, others may prefer not to treat and then there are those chickens that are pets and just like any pet , the owner will do whatever it takes to make them well again.

I have seen the side effects, overdose limits and overdose effects of Panadol, and have been deeply suprized about its availability as a supermarket drug and the number of things doctors recommend it for.
It is far more dangerous than many of the resticted drugs, and potentially worse than many of the illegal drugs .

 

[sjturner79]

I have seen the side effects, overdose limits and overdose effects of Panadol, and have been deeply suprized about its availability as a supermarket drug and the number of things doctors recommend it for.
It is far more dangerous than many of the resticted drugs, and potentially worse than many of the illegal drugs .

I should add that it is known by other names in parts of the world and is responsible for more deaths per day worldwide than vehicle accidents.

 

[Coram]

This is the sneezy Barnvelder. As there's no mucus and she's acting normally I'm going to back off and monitor her.

 

[Coram]

I have seen the side effects, overdose limits and overdose effects of Panadol, and have been deeply suprized about its availability as a supermarket drug and the number of things doctors recommend it for.
It is far more dangerous than many of the resticted drugs, and potentially worse than many of the illegal drugs .

So true. I had a student attempt an overdose using Panadol. He damaged his liver terribly. He was estranged from his family, so I went in to discharge him from hospital. I am always surprised by its accessibility.