Australorps breed Thread

[groche]

Hi Ron,
thanks yet again for your perceptive analysis of the situation.
OSUman, we have some ordinary birds winning prizes through lack of competition too. I wasn't trying to offend the judge who awarded the prize and I shouldn't have described it as "an Orp." I do stand by it having an Orp. 'undercarriage', however. I know our SOP's vary a little, but I'd be surprised if yours rewarded fluffy-thighed BA's. The Australian SOP says, " The hocks being nearly covered by body feathering; and the whole of the shanks showing below the underline." Let me quote Ray Connor again "It is critical that the whole of the shanks are clearly visible below the body. Any tendency in the shanks to be covered reflects the original Orpington heritage but also detracts from the characteristics of being an active fowl." I doubt if there is a greater BA expert in the world than old Ray, eh, Aveca. And also, don't forget that Bill told us that my opinion was the same as that expressed by "Jack Patterson" and others who apparantly saw the bird. No offence intended.
Cheers Geoff from Aus

 

[aveca]

Im afraid without being able to import which would delight many of us..We have to work in what we have Geoff..I agree with everything Ray connor says..But we are a world away, unless import station takes an interest in importing them..many americans would work hard at trying to recreate as you did if the recipie were avail....but for right now we are stuck...we like what we see in yours, magnificent birds ..a bravo from here...but our story doesnt end there..anyone like myself, or bill or osuman who has full or part bred english orp imports can tell you what a war that has been..you think oh good, now I have this fresh blood to work in instead of adding breeds that were never the part of the creation in the first place.....no...there are people out there that become completly unhinged at the idea that you would have an imported australorp..any of us have been through these trenchs and fights that rage on still..senceless? yes..but it is the way it is..it comes to the point where you ignore lot of it for the betterment of the breed..adding a silkie into creation of american australorp to me wouldnt work, but there are those who would convince you that would somehow be a better idea than using an import.. we still sit and observe these fights..it wouldnt be any better with australorp..there would be no denying they are fantastic birds. but people would be unhinged about it..the tornadoe goes on around me, but I ignore it..I do what I like..no one has to like it but me..

if your doing well, its usually reflected in show results..the judges job should be to sort out where you are at..let you know..OK you need to tighten up those feathers..his job is to help you guage what you need to do next with his keen eye to bone problems that might be cropping up ect..you may over look things like that or become barn blind...many people are completly barn blind, they assume they are much better than they are, so I thank God for the SOP judges they set them flying straight...barn blindness is as old as time. ..the SOP judges are fantastic at saying no..you have a bigger problem that you are over looking..so we have to appreciate these guys..in my opinion they are amazing helpful looking out for your best interest and will give advise on what to do next...you are always going to have a few unhinged individuals that are extreamly loud cage rattlers..but we have learned to roll our eyes at those..if people put that much work into the aussies, the SOP judges will help them..a great breeder knows its a work in progress..expects to be told by judge what needs to happen next..you get out of it what you put into it. I have had nothing but 100 % positive encounters with SOP judges on the road..They tell me striaight..I really like this, but you need to work on this or that..gives me an honest goal..this isnt an SOP judge problem, its a breeder workbook project. certian areas in US boast much bigger aussie classes than other areas..it just depends on the interest in areas , how they are promoted ect..

 

[lildinkem]

Hi Ron,
thanks yet again for your perceptive analysis of the situation.
OSUman, we have some ordinary birds winning prizes through lack of competition too. I wasn't trying to offend the judge who awarded the prize and I shouldn't have described it as "an Orp." I do stand by it having an Orp. 'undercarriage', however. I know our SOP's vary a little, but I'd be surprised if yours rewarded fluffy-thighed BA's. The Australian SOP says, " The hocks being nearly covered by body feathering; and the whole of the shanks showing below the underline." Let me quote Ray Connor again "It is critical that the whole of the shanks are clearly visible below the body. Any tendency in the shanks to be covered reflects the original Orpington heritage but also detracts from the characteristics of being an active fowl." I doubt if there is a greater BA expert in the world than old Ray, eh, Aveca. And also, don't forget that Bill told us that my opinion was the same as that expressed by "Jack Patterson" and others who apparantly saw the bird. No offence intended.
Cheers Geoff from Aus

The old sayin stays true. Everyone has an opinion.
Another question Jack answered for a new to the "ORP" world breeder was
"can you tell me which Black Orp pullet you like?"
One pullet was much tighter feathered bird, one was a part UK Black Orp line. Jack said, he likes to see the hock, and there is too much feathering to see the bird. Now when the APA judge came by he picked the part UK Orp. The APA judge did handle the bird, Jack did not. Both birds were within 2 months of age from each other. I told this breeder, the only judge which opinion counts, is "YOU" the owner of the bird. you have to look at them. Feed them. The ultimate decider is "YOU". No cheap trophy is worth changing your point of view of what you like in a bird.
I am trying to breed mine to look like Geoff's avatar's bird. A curved back, full view of the BLACK legs with a little bit of space to see under the bird. Loads of green sheen. Mostly all Black beak. Black eyes. Here dark brown is acceptable. And near as important as anything else, do not make them too big. Orps it is suppose to be okay to build them as big as you can make em. I think Aussies need to maintain no more then 2 lbs give or take more then the standard.
This is just what I want. I have to feed these birds and look at them. I am the decider here.

 

[ronott1]

Quote: Yes! They are your chickens after all.

Don't tell anyone but I hatched out Dorking Barred Rock crosses in the fall. They are beautiful Barnyard mutts. The Cockerels are very big too at 16 weeks old. I am not posting about this on the Dorking thread....

 

[lildinkem]

Yes! They are your chickens after all.

Don't tell anyone but I hatched out Dorking Barred Rock crosses in the fall. They are beautiful Barnyard mutts. The Cockerels are very big too at 16 weeks old. I am not posting about this on the Dorking thread....

You should. Funny you bring up Dorkings and Barred ones to boot. This weekend at the Connorsville Show, the LF judge looked at and critiqued my Cuckoo Orp, and then said
"once you are done with this guy I will take him for my Dorkings".

He is 8 months old and weighed in last nite on my old school Doctors scales, the type that have the slide weights, at 10.5 lbs.
Just a baby

 

[ronott1]

Quote: The biggest problem with the SG Dorkings is their size so using one of your Cuckoo Orps makes great sense! SG Dorkings are in such bad shape, they don't even have the correct shape any more.

That is a nice looking Rooster!

 

[groche]

Hi folks,
regulars on this thread will know that I always try to look for positives in the birds people post here. I agree with Bill that we ultimately breed to please ourselves. I do think it's a bit different if you are showing the bird. Then you are putting it up for assessment according to the relevant SOP and can't expect your bird's faults to be overlooked because you're a junior, pensioner or anything else. That's why I was harsh on that bottom bird. I've seen nothing in American birds to suggest that you lack the BA bloodlines to produce visible shanked birds, whatever other issues you may have there. I've also said numbers of times that we have similar issues here with too much Exhibition Orp. having been added, producing oversized, overfluffy, average-laying Exhibition BA's. Many folk are working on creating birds closer to the SOP than many of those winning prizes here at the moment. Fads/fashions can have an undesireable influence too, as OSUman mentions. And, of course, any SOP is still open to 'interpretation'. Still don't think prizes should be awarded to birds with major faults that really should be disqualifications, irrespective of the class. It's the bird being judged, not the breeder.
Cheers Geoff from Aus

 

[cubakid]

A couple of pages back I posted about the sad state of SQ Australorps in the US. That is why ones that do not meet SOP wind up on Champion Row. Lots of breeds that are in decline will do that. Take any fairly nice SG Dorking to a competition and you can get a ribbon.

Lots of Heritage breeds are like that. The good news is if you showed up with a BA that was SOP, you would knock the socks off of the Judges and they would love being able to judge a real nice Australorp.

You can tell how bad it is by reading that you can take a bad hen and breed it to a Roo and get a winner. That should not happen really?

Does it surprise you that a good specimen can be produced by balancing. Take for instance a bird I posted here long ago, she was out of show lines and showed all good show qualities except that her back had a little to much curvature. Does this make her a bad bird... Absolutely not, for breeding. She bred with the orp looking birds would, and did, produce some excellent birds. I'm not new to breeding poultry, by the standards, again. This does not prove anything about the state of Aussies in the US. Rather it shows that some people put an effort into producing birds that fit the Standard.

Aveca you hit it spot on. Our judges do know the standard quite well, and eventually I'll put myself to the test of becoming a judge. They give input as well, it takes more than a judge that places your bird. It takes the exhibitor to ask what can be improved. I am very close with many judges and all of them try to give advice... Not that I haven't heard about my Aussies being fluffy. I even clerked for a judge that told me my bird looked like a Cochin, why he'd say a bird that had an extremely noticeable fanned main tail and resembled more of a langshan, looked like a Cochin... Even when he judged the Cochins perfectly. I don't know. But they notice something isn't correct. The only thing I've noticed is that some judges like the larger birds even in the case of bantams, like Cochins. But the birds still fit the profile of that breed.

 

[aveca]

I hope you do work toward becoming a judge..it would be a good thing..I have seen one group of home made aussies that are what I would call a bit too big, and quite profuse feathering..these were over in tenn about 10 years ago..But Im a glass half full person..... I thought if they worked things out, they might actually have something there..the body build was very close to australias...just had kinks to work out..the judges were rewarding that group of birds..not sure for the reason other than the judges might have been saying, I see where your going with this..if you keep at it..tighten things up your going to have something..So the effort was probably what they were rewarding..looking at them like an unfinished art peice but you could kind of see the end result if they handle it in a good way....our birds looked like tottal production next to those..being that US aussies are in the state they are in..they are all a work in progress..different breeders will tackle the problems with different stratagies..some times trial and error produces some interesting things I think.. if somone doesnt make a few bold moves, it just sits and spins, goes nowhere..So I admire that woman in tenn that was giving something a go..

 

[ronott1]

Quote:
No, balancing is used commonly. What I meant was that you should not have to use a DQ bird in breeding. Faults or slight imperfections can be balanced. Like Goche said, I am not saying anything bad about the breeders. You would agree that SQ BAs are not up to snuff? It is a reflection on the need to increase the quality of the breeding stock.